Special Needs or Not - When are kids ready for high school?

[Julie in MN]

High School, I don't know what to do....

My 14 yo dd is doing 8th grade this year using ECC and the supplements. She is enjoying it, but progressing very slow. She has language-based LD and dyslexia and everything takes longer to do and to learn and remember. She has memory problems across the board: working, auditory/visual, short and long-term. My problem is that she is not going to finish the books she is working in. She has been learning and she is persistent, but slow. Also, she has writing issues in that the feel of the paper drives her crazy and she has trouble putting her thoughts on paper, but she can produce good work over time.

I want to start her in MFW high school this Sept., but, like I said she is not going to finish the books she is working in. Do I just continue in Sept. wherever we leave off in June or do I get all 9th grade level books? For example, she is doing Applications of Grammar 8th grade right now, do I get AoG grade 9 next year even though she won't finish. Also she will not finish the Apologia General Science this year; do I go ahead and get the Biology one? I read somewhere that she should not do Biology until she has completed Algebra 1. However, she is just finishing MUS Delta, which is division. She does not GET math and has always struggled with it.

Also I heard it is very important to get high school level books in order for them to count for HS credit, which makes sense, but....what do I do? I'm so confused. I've already held her back a year. She will be 15 in May, I don't feel like I can hold her back again.

If she goes to college it will be community college since we can't afford a university. She has a lot of talent in drawing and may want to go to college for Art. Any help is greatly appreciated.
God Bless,
Tracy

Tracy,
I've agonized over such things right there with you. I just have a couple of things on your list that I "think" I've figured out for "my" school anyways. Remember, though, that depending on you dd's special needs, things that apply to other kids may not apply to her.

1. Grammar - Hopefully that is just one piece of her English credit this year. If she did other things, too (reading, writing, vocabulary/spelling, early literature analysis, etc.), then she can be given an 8th grade English credit even if she didn't do the whole grammar book. She can then continue on in the same book next year as part of her 9th grade English credit. AIO is an advanced enough book that she could use it in high school. My goal would be to finish that book before she graduates, and the sooner the better. (No need to continue on to other books in that series.)

2. Math - There are several things to think about here, including:
* Ideally she would complete Algebra before Chemistry. And before taking the PSAT test (usually in early 11th grade) or any of the other college tests, it would be good to have Algebra and either high school Geometry or a solid middle school geometry under her belt. If not, there are short courses to help bridge the gap, but since they only add to the amount of things you're trying to do, it's easier to just do the usual sequence.
* High schoolers can have math classes such as Practical Math and Pre-Algebra on their transcript. It won't look as impressive to colleges, but if the result is more solid skills that boost her ACT/SAT scores, then it may be worth it, since those scores will mean more to colleges than your high school course names. The worst that can happen at a community college is that she has to pay for a no-credit basic math course, but that might be fine in her situation.
* Always name her high school math class honestly. If her work isn't up to Algebra standards, then I either wouldn't give her the credit, or, if you feel she's done the work, then I'd name it something like Algebra 1/2 or Basic Math.
* Some high school math courses spend a lot of time in review at the beginning of the year, and may not really expect you to get to the advanced stuff at the end of the year. Homeschool math programs are less likely to have anything you can skip at the end of the year, but may have a lot of review at the beginning, especially if your student is keeping up her math skills over the summer. You may be able to skip sections of review if she is working more year-round or if she is the type of person who works slowly but retains well.

3. Science - As for her 8th grade credit, I guess it's your call as to whether she's earned a year's credit this year. Maybe she's done other stuff you could count as part of her credit, or maybe she just gets one semester of credit this year. I don't think it's a really big deal. As for 9th grade, general Science isn't really a high school level course in my opinion. However, our local co-op does offer General through 9th grade. I guess it's your call, but I might at least move on to 8th grade science (Physical Science) for 9th, if you don't feel she's ready for Biology. And maybe she could even finish her General this summer -- especially the section introducing Biology?

4. History (or Social Studies) & Bible - I can't help you there. I think a full credit needs to be earned, but not sure if that would be more flexible in 8th grade? I'd ask for advice from the MFW office. Lots of experience there.

5. Electives - In 8th grade, I think the goal is exposure when giving credits in things like Foreign Language or Art. If your dd hasn't had time to earn credits beyond the "basic 4" (math, science, english, social studies), then you might find summer opportunities to boost her "electives" by exposing her to the arts, music, languages, and the like. And in high school, when actual credit hours become important, my dd had a lot of interesting summer experiences to boost up her elective credits. I think it's tempting to skip electives for a struggling student, but actually it's nice if the student has something easy & successful in the mix, too.

Best wishes as you sort through your options. But don't feel like a failure. She's getting the very best education she can, and she is very lucky to have you.
Julie

[HSmommi2mine]

I really don't know what to tell you for most of that but I do know that many books are on tape. Not her math book, mind you, but history text books and novels and all kids of things can be found in an audio version. Listening to these instead of reading them may free up some of her time.

[cbollin]

(((Tracy)))

Not sure I have enough experiences to share for anything high school. Call the MFW office for some practical stuff on that, and Julie's answer and Christina's right "get audio helps"

but I hear you on the parenting of kids with issues. I know I feel that way a lot of the time when it gets overwhelming with sensory integration, ADHD, autism and just slow kids. You are right to call HELP! been there, do that every day.

You're not a failure:
You are God's Workmanship, Ephesians 2:10
You are Complete in Christ

and He is able to keep YOU, Tracy, from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy

praying and more ((hugs))

-crystal

[TracyLee01026]

Juile and Crystal,
Thank you for your encouragement, I cried. I have been feeling down lately, and more than a little stressed due to end of year pressure. I have three LD kids and it takes so long to get anything done because they all need my help with practically everything, so one or more of them are waiting around for me to help or off playing somewhere as soon as I am helping someone, although this year I did pretty good keeping them all occupied at the same time. I really have tried over the years, but where you failed to make progress is so glaringly obvious when high school comes up. I feel like I failed her somehow, even though I don't know how I could possibly have done more, except in maybe using my time wiser or being more organized (not my strengths).

Christina, that is a good suggestion. I will see it I can find some audio tapes for her that will free up some time. She loves listening to all of the Narnia audiotapes over and over again. Maybe listening to tapes is a good idea from now through the summer as it won't seem like schoolwork as much. I already told my 14 yo that we will need to keep plodding along over the summer, especially in math, but probably other subject areas as well. She seemed okay with that.

Julie, I copied your suggestions and will look them over carefully. I can see how I can use your suggestions. This might sound dumb, but I didn't know she could start acquiring credits this year for high school or doesn't 8th grade credit count toward high school, if it doesn't why bother? Could you explain how that works exactly? For Grammar she has been reading the advanced missionary stories, working in WriteShop as she did not do well with Writing Strands, Sequential Spelling which we will finish, and she did a Progeny Press guide this year. I suppose I cannot count any Math credit this year as she is so far behind the average. She will complete 1/2 of General Science this year and I will have her read the rest over the summer, not sure how to count as credits. I will have her do Physical Science for 9th. Do I count ECC as 8th grade credit for a complete geography course? Do I put 8th grade credits on her high school transcript? She takes piano lessons every week does that count for credits? She participated in a play and a few puppet shows this year, does that count for drama credits? Thanks for your advice.

God Bless you all,
Tracy

[Julie in MN]

I didn't know she could start acquiring credits this year for high school or doesn't 8th grade credit count toward high school, if it doesn't why bother? Could you explain how that works exactly?

Tracy,
Sorry my post got so long & confusing. Now you know how my kids feel when I try to explain something to them

You're right -- if you aren't required by your state to record credits in 8th grade, why bother? I just wasn't sure if you were asking how to get her to finish up her 8th grade credits.

I suppose I cannot count any Math credit this year as she is so far behind the average. She will complete 1/2 of General Science this year and I will have her read the rest over the summer, not sure how to count as credits.

Again, talking about high school here, since it doesn't sound like you're worried about recording 8th grade credits...

Credits are based on two things: (1) Material covered and (2) time spent. If my dd did a year's worth of work in a subject, making progress at her level, then I gave her a year's credit. However, I chose the *name* of the course to reflect the material covered.

Here are two examples for comparison. (1) My dd did a semester of Biology successfully, but it took her almost a whole year. So, on her transcript, I gave my dd one semester of Biology, because she did learn that material even though it took her longer than the usual expectation. However, she did not cover Biology 2nd semester material, so I didn't give her the 2nd credit even though she spent the time, because all of the time went into the 1st semester Biology credit. (2) Dd's first semester of Algebra didn't work & she didn't learn Algebra, so I didn't give her a credit in Algebra. But she put in the time & made a lot of progress in basic math skills because of all the different things we tried to help fill in the gaps I kept finding, and so I did give her a semester credit but named it Pre-Algebra.

Not everyone can (or should) put this much effort into re-creating the wheel for each child. However, if it stops your tears & it contributes to your child's success, then you can make high school work for you, without sacrificing integrity or high standards.

[TracyLee01026]

Julie,
Thanks for clearing that up. You are a great help. I don't think you are confusing, I think I am just generally confused at the moment! You have given me some things to think about and I know I will work through it eventually, it may take a lot of emails, calls, reading of materials, etc. but things will clear up. Happy Spring!
Blessings,
Tracy

[mamaofredheads]

Hugs to you Tracy!! I too understand what it's like to teach kids with LDs. I wanted to let you know about Reading for Blind & Dyslexic. If you provide documentation of dyslexia you can become a member & get audio books. They have a huge selection of recorded books including many textbooks. I know the BJU Geography book that is recommended with ECC as a supplement for 7th & 8th graders is available. Right now once your membership is approved you can download some of the books for free. For a $65 one time fee & $35/year you can order CDs (you do have to buy their special player, which is pricey). One person told me they knew someone who used these all through college because they have so many books available. I've downloaded several RTR book basket selections. You can also request that they record particular titles.

As others have said, you are not a failure!! I know it's discouraging sometimes when they seem to progress so slowly, but you are doing a wonderful thing for your kids.

Glenna

[ Editor's note: 2nd edition ECC no longer recommends the BJU Geography supplement, but the book might still be a resource in certain situations. ]

[RuthinFL]

Tracy,
I am in almost the same boat as you are. My almost 14yodd had dyslexia and dysgraphia, meaning she has a hard time writing. All of her friends are doing high school level work, but she honestly can't do what they are doing.

This year, I used books on tape for Literature, audio materials for History, and All in One English for Grammar. Science was a washout this year, but I we just started using the Usborne Internet linked book and she did all the "labs" online. Math is pretty complicated since she is only doing 6/7th grade...but, the most important thing is that she is learning at her level!!

I used to fret a lot about her and felt like a failure too, but God has shown me what to do and I know He will guide you to the right materials and how to teach the needed subjects to her in a way that will benefit her. When I would hear other moms saying how their kids are learning Latin or Physics, I used to want to cry, now I just smile and know I am doing the best I can for my daughter at HER level of learning!! Actually, latin and greek roots have helped her in spelling tremendously!

I will be praying for you!
Ruth

[TracyLee01026]

Glenna,
I have heard about Reading for Blind and Dyslexic for years and never looked into it, but maybe now is the time. It might be worth it for her to have access to it. I don't know why I never seriously looked into it, I guess it looked like more work and I already felt overloaded! Thanks for reminding me once again.

Ruth,
Thank you for your understanding and for sharing with me what you will be doing with your daughter. It really helps to know I am not alone. Thank you for your prayers.

Blessings to you both,
Tracy

[cbollin]

How does this sound for my struggling 14 yos (dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia) who is roughly two years behind his peers:

9th grade: ECC with 7/8th grade supplement, math twice a day plus a supplement, writing via prompts drawn from the ECC readings, handwriting (yes, he really still needs handwriting, figure this couldn't hurt!), Grammar, science from the ECC but add in topics from BJUP Earth Science book as the topics mesh and add in TOPS Math Lab for basic stuff on scientific notation, metric system, etc. We also can easily add more "high school level" geography.

10th grade: use materials we have here.

11th grade: come back to MFW and do the Ancients as written, continue with MUS, chemistry somehow (maybe not apologia because of the math, still very on the fence with that whole thing), writing applied to the compositions assigned in the Ancients TM. Do the Ancients lessons use the first half of the Notgrass World?

12th grade: Continue with MFW by doing the World course as written, and basically just expanding beyond what we did in the 11th grade year.

This is a boy who likes the idea of the offerings at college, especially the college my oldest is going to be attending, but he really isn't a "scholar" (KWIM). He's more artsy, understands the abstract things in life, yet often misses most subtleties, if that makes any sense. I guess that's all part of the gift of his dyslexia. It sure makes things interesting.

Anyway, I guess I'm really asking for "permission" to do things out of order. I'd love to do things the way MFW has them laid out, but we found this program rather late for that, and this particular boy just isn't ready for HS level work even though we are going to call this coming term his first HS year and award credits. We're hopeful that with puberty underway he'll grow in more ways than just the physical ones! Any thoughts on the above?

Blessings,
Chris

Chris,

As long as you are meeting a 4 year plan that meets your student's needs, and meets any state requirements for transcripts, graduation, etc., then I hereby say you can do it in a way that meets all of that. 4 year classical mfw approach is just one way (a really great way in my opinion).

You've graduated one already, so you know plenty about 4 year plans and all of that. It's great to know that MFW is part of what you're doing for the next student.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Hi Chris,
I haven't used MFW high school, but am just chiming in because as was mentioned, not a lot of high schoolers hang out here, and they are often busy! The office of course has lots of high school experience. But I do have my AHL materials here for next year, so I'm up for a chat.

As I think through your questions, I find it difficult because I don't know how "struggling" your struggling student is, if that makes sense

I think your plan might have worked well for my older dd, who was slow and concrete. In fact, I did several of the things you mention for her high school (MFW wasn't available, tho), and they provided her a good education. But her future goals would be more like preparing for community college, long before she ever tackled the pace and amount of reading in a university. And then my Biblical plans for her were to get her through the entire Bible, but she seemed to need the whole 4 years to digest this, rather than just 2. Some of your plan would depend on the details, though -- e.g. how much and what would you leave out of SL, how much would you change the writing assignments in AHL (argumentative essay seems important), and what do you have planned for Bible?

However, If your son has higher aspirations than community college and just needs to work on some weaknesses, such as my youngest ds who is auditory and dislikes reading/writing but has the ability, then I like MFW's plan, with room for some adjustments such as using a lot of audiobooks. I think MFW's plan will help him achieve his goals, with things like a firm writing plan and a gradual step up in the amount of textbook material he is expected to remember. It will also help *me* as compared to trying to cover all the bases with my dd. Also, ds has been pretty much through the entire Bible with MFW already, so he is ready to read it completely through in two years and then move on to the Worldviews study that MFW has planned for 11th grade, rather than needing as much time to digest the OT&NT as my dd needed.

Best wishes as you try to sort out your plans,
Julie

[club190]

Thanks Julie & Crystal for "permission" to think outside the box on this whole thing.

I'll give you some more background on this boy. He's 14 and a half now, puberty is moving, slowly, but moving. He was 12 before the blending of sounds into words finally "clicked" for him. Mostly, Andrew forgets things easily. Subtleties escape him, inferences are out of his realm of thinking, and making connections beyond the most obvious of causes and effects is very difficult as well. On the positive side, he writes amazingly heartfelt poetry, possesses the soul of an artist, and has head of a shrewd business man. I don't yet know what the Lord's purpose is for this boy. Up until we visited Ursinus College, he was totally against the idea of his ever getting a degree. (Tests, especially timed ones are disastrous for him so CLEPping is pretty much out.) But something there resonated with him. I was amazed when he took me aside that day and asked me if there was a place for him at that college. That's what has me so in angst now about his 4 year plan!

As I think about the whole 4 year plan thing with him I'm struck by the fact that he only has 4 years left! That's just four years to give him a solid understanding of the earth and all that is in it, its peoples, places, and products. Just four years to teach him the whole span of history, including the history of our nation! There's so much to pour into those years, so much that he simply doesn't know about that I'm seriously stressing! We spent all of the years up to last year just getting him able to read! He's made remarkable progress when you look at it objectively, yet he's still rather far behind his peers in so many areas, there's no way to get around that fact. We've basically got just one shot at all of those courses -- World geography, American history, World history, that I have to have a plan in place to make sure we hit the more than just the high points.

One of the reasons I am so drawn to the MFW Ancients and World programs is the fact that the lessons have the student reading the entire Bible. We may very well need more than just two years for that, but maybe not, maybe we can do some of that via an audio copy. He has to learn how to write essays, but he's still in the basic areas of writing at this point when it comes to reports. He doesn't really know how to form a written argument yet, but then again, he has only just begun to study the fallacies so hasn't gotten to that yet. I really think he needs at least a year to mature into the MFW HS programs, probably more like 2 years would be better. If that's the case, then doing a year in between ECC and MFW Ancients and World will be an ideal solution to this dilemma.

Thanks for letting me hash this out,
Chris

[LatinTea]

I just wanted to add that it is perfectly okay to take 5 years to do high school. We are probably going to do this with my dd. She just needs a bit more time, having a few learning issues, and I can see that another year at home will insulate her from making some immature decisions in regards to college. Of course, that might change in 3 years, but right now, we will pursue a different path.

Hi Margo,
Welcome, and thanks for the reminder about allowing HS to take longer than 4 years. Part of me says he should be under our protection and authority, doing school, etc, until he is 20, the Biblical age of manhood. Part of me says he should graduate with his peers. He's kind of a social creature and has some nice friends who will graduate in 2014 so he wants to be in thick of that with them and not still home doing school with his mom when they're off to college. But then again, if he really needs the time, then he needs the time. There's no getting around the fact that some kids mature sooner than others. Thanks so much for letting me hash. I think we're going to let go and let God be God in this one and just take each year as they come. After all, each year (not to mention, each day, too) has enough worries without me worrying in advance too.

Blessings,
Chris

Yes, I understand what you are saying! And thanks for the welcome. I actually bought AHL and then sent it back! For various reasons, nothing about the quality. My sister had suffered a brain injury and I wasn't thinking all that clearly. I see now that I could have made it work for us and am thinking about repurchasing.

As for high school, my son graduated last year. He could have graduated the year before as he had enough credits, but I held him back so that, among other things, he could have the ceremony with his best friend and they could go to college together. Well, his friend ended up NOT having a ceremony AND my son is now doing college at home. Well, so much for my well thought out plans!

You are right, let God lead; our job being to take those subtle (and not so subtle) hints on how to follow that right path. Sounds like you have a handle it.

Margo

[Julie in MN]

What if we do 5 "years" worth of MFW -- ECC, Ancients, World, American A then American B -- in four years?? 5 programs times 36 weeks each is 180 weeks total, dividing that by 4 years would be 45 weeks of school per year. That's what we usually put in anyway. The question is though, can a struggling student really manage to keep on pace for 180 weeks??

Maybe I'm over-thinking this whole thing? Maybe it would be better to just live in the moment?
Blessings,
Chris

To some extent, I think if we just "do the next thing" and trust God, it will all come out okay. That's worked in our family when we couldn't see the plan in the future.

Meanwhile, to help you think it through, I was thinking that surely there will be things you can cut out along the way for the poor boy schooling for 4 years straight. For one thing, there's about a semester geography credit in the high school program already, so you could eliminate some of the geo in either ECC or in later years. If you do literature during your ECC year, then maybe you'll skip a few literature units in the later years -- without having to make that decision until you come to it. And so on. I think there is potential for it all to work out

But for now, if you feel peace about doing ECC next year, I'd just go ahead with that!
Julie

[cbollin]

Crystal, you are so good to remind me of the "cut a semester or two out of American" plan that Brett outlined to me. I'd forgotten that.

Maybe it isn't such a good idea to do that "HS, HS, and Beyond" Book with Andrew. It's making me think too much! I got to thinking that the BJUP American book wouldn't be a good fit for him.

Julie, thanks again for reminding me to breathe and remember to trust the Lord. After all He makes no mistakes, so that means that Andrew is exactly how He wants him to be and He has a particular plan for this particular boy. I also appreciate your reminder that I'll be able to cut things out of the HS courses because we'll have them in with what we're doing. I definitely wasn't thinking along those lines.

So, I really think it's best to sit back and let ECC and the curricular choices we have made for him for this term unfold and then make more decisions after we see how much remediation he makes up in the coming year. I guess I get in a twist the most when I think about those standardized tests. He's not a good test taker so we really should get an official diagnosis for him before that time, if he's going to do any testing, that is (whether they be SAT, ACT, CLEP, whatever).

He's got such a head for business that we really should explore more of an entrepreneurial avenue for him.

Blessings,
Chris

on that note, I haven't done or reviewed it yet. But, I saw at nashville convention something for this.
It's called Venture Academy
http://www.franklinsprings.com/films/venture/

I have no idea what it is like. But when you said business thing, I just remembered seeing it.

and, well, uhm.. have you seen this part of the mfw website?
http://mfwbooks.com/internship.htm

-crystal

[Bret Welshymer]

I have 2 dyslexic sons. The oldest one is in 6th grade this year. High school is concerning me as I wonder if he will be able to do it, particularly handling the literature, Biology, and Saxon Algebra 1. Have you adapted high school any? If so, what did you do? Did you assign the credits the same? Any help is appreciated. I also will have 2 in high school next year, one in WHL and one in AHL. Plus 2 in RTR, one in first grade, and an 18 month old. Help! How do I do this? I have discovered that I can only homeschool 3 children well. Since I have 5 they are on their own for more than I would like. I am praying that God will make up the difference as I am doing the best that I can. There are no options for outsourcing because of finances and public school is not an option.

I certainly understand your concerns for your 6th grader. A lot can change for him over the next three years before starting high school. We will be happy to provide suggestions for using our high school program based on the needs your son has at that time.

I think you will find the school year more manageable than you think with two in high school. High school is written to be a parent guided, independent study program. Most high school work will be completed independently. We suggest you meet with your high school students on Fridays for a parent/student conference. This frees you up to focus on the younger children during the week. Fridays are lighter and mostly independent in R-R, giving you time to meet with your highschoolers. We also suggest beginning the high school programs 1-2 weeks ahead of the younger children. This gives you the opportunity to help your high school students get started without having to teach the younger children at the same time.

If you would like to talk more specifically about your family's needs, please call our office (573-426-4600).

[cbollin]

Lori,
I have some thoughts on your question for ideas in how to help the now 6th grader work in the jr. high years grow and develop in those years before starting high school........

Although my middle daughter doesn’t have dyslexia, I share the same kind of concerns for her when it comes to high school whether it is with MFW or something else. My middle daughter is just slow to average. Language delays, and just generally younger than even her friends who are home schooled. I question nearly every day "can she do MFW?" and then I question "how do I juggle needs of 3 gals including autism"? drives me batty at times, so I hit the gym

I’m using these jr. high years to begin to transition toward more on her own learning that will be needed in high school years. Maybe some of the ideas I’m doing might spark an idea for you.

Apologia General – I have the audio version and she listens to it while having the book in front of her. She is using a pre made folder book thingy from knowledge box central. Now, I will not have her use that lapbook thingy next year in Physical? Why? I want her to try more on her own. So, now that she’s seen a model of fun ways to take notes and to study and use the study guide, she might be able to be creative and do one for herself.

Although I seem to be just enough ahead in the General Science program than Debby and Marty are, I’d like to encourage you to glance at
http://wikis.engrade.com/nctgs/nctgs1
and see if that is a tool for your now 6th grader to use next year in General. After doing those online flashcards and reviews, will he be able to wean from pre made and learn to make his own flashcards?

So, I”d look at these jr. high years as a time not to work independently on everything necessarily, but to use the time for developing study skills.

Have you been looking at website and online communities that focus on “study tips dyslexia”? I found a few this morning with a google search (in spite of the SOPA protest today). It seems a common tool for essay writing is something called a Mind Map. I’ve reading on a site that is for college and university students with dyslexia.
This site has basic tips for reading hard books
http://www.dyslexia-college.com/reading.html

and here from Yale University, some tips from students to students
http://dyslexia.yale.edu/DYS_Student2Student.html


It is ok to use audio books, and spark notes in high school to help understand the readings.

I know this year in Progeny Press with my 7th grader (middle gal), I took the time on weekends to read the books and give her some tips on the questions – look on page 19, can you find it now?

Begin to try to implement some of those ideas in small ways during jr. high and even in 9th and 10th grade.

Maybe the older students can schedule in 20 minutes to help this sibling with study time?

You won't have the one on one time that you wish you could for the jr. high student. I get that. I understand. But with some of these tools out there, it might be the case to let him try on his own with new tools.

-crystal

[mommasue]

Hi Lori, One big help for me is my husband has done read aloud and bible the night before since forever ( 6 years now??) and my best friend who is basically a single mom, does the same, the read aloud and bible at night. Now that my dd is in AHL he is in charge of checking her bible stuff, though I still do the parent meetings.

I think apologia really helped us transition, I have been hands off since day one with the apologia because she was in a co-op and I wanted to see if she could do on her own. now this year I am teaching her biology ( apologia) but in a co-op setting , that helps her with deadlines etc. my dd with health issues, though, is struggling with the co-op idea this year, and next year I will change things for her. They are all so different, and I think being able to sense a need for change and then changing, has helped. Because, with our particular family issues, our number one priority is their relationship with God and each other, academics is a distant second... 1. because we dont know how long they have on this earth and 2. we have academic delays.... i think that has taken the pressure off, and somehow my dd with dyslexia amongst other things is soaring, I seriously cant believe it. Now to pray that my other dd will also soar, or at least be content with her lot, she gets so frustrated with her disabilities, she tries so stinkin hard.

I do have major concerns about next year though, with the AHL, the WHL and then 2 in cultures.... so its nice to know someone else is in the boat? maybe we can support each other in prayer.

Sue
wife to John for almost 18 years (ack! where has the time gone)
dd, 9th AHL, dd,8th,ds 6th & dd 3rd, 1850MOD
we have used every year from preschool up

[cbollin]

Lori,

Sue's post reminded me of something.... My husband does a lot of the high school writing teaching/grading and even helps on grabbing the answer keys for math/science stuff. My brain is long time scattered and lost so he does that part for me. not to mention it makes it easier on me not dealing with my oldest.

-crystal

[cbollin]

My 13yo daughter has always been behind. She progresses a LOT every year, but I really don't think it will be realistic for her to start AHL next year. Just wanting to see what others might suggest.

Right now she is doing:
ECC w/7th and 8th grade supplement -- She does alright with this. The geography pages can be a challenge at times, but everything else is pretty simple. She did not understand the book, "I dared to call him father."

Apologia General Science -- we tried this last year but ditched it. She just wasn't getting it...too difficult. This year is a little better, but she fails the tests. I am trying many different approaches including letting her take notes via the study guide as she goes along, listening to the lecture online at virtual homeschool, and doing alternate test on the yahoo group for apologia general science. The tests are very frustrating for her.

All In One English Series -- Did it last year, and repeating this year. No way was she ready for Applications of Grammar.

Apples Spelling -- Spelling Power just wasn't working for us

Teaching Textbooks 7 -- doing pretty well, but usually misses a lot and has to go back and repeat.

I can't decide if I should introduce her to AHL and let her do what she can handle (I'm pretty good at knowing what is too easy, too challenging, and just challenging enough), and then stay in the cycle for whatever I need to. I suppose she will graduate a year or so later than her siblings. Not sure how she will feel about that, but if we explain it in a way that she knows we are doing what we believe is best, then she should be (hopefully) okay with it. You know how teenagers can be about feeling ashamed/embarrassed, though.

my middle gal is there with your child on this... I've struggled a lot this year thinking... hmmm.. does she do MFW in 9th grade. or do we skip ahl, do we do this/that? hmmm.. or 5 year high school? I know one of my friends had to have her oldest take 5 years to finish high school. it happens in homeschoolers too.. then I think.. how much help do I need to give middle gal to help her use AHL as a "remedial" or "not advanced college prep" student? what can get left out.. if I left out part of English.. and just read bible.. ugh!!!!!!!

I think I've driven Bret at the mfw office crazy asking all of that.... the man is a saint. they don't pay him enough to put up with my questions..
oh dear.. Ihave no answers, just wanted to say, I'm in the same boat.....and have the same worries about next year for my middle gal... in theory I want to do AHL, and she keep saying "I can try. it might be fun."

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Wanting to help but just random thoughts here, based on pulling a difficult dd through high school without the benefit of MFW, and pulling a baby-of-the-family who doesn't like to read through AHL and WHL...

1. Science: Have you tried having her do the tests through Virtual Homeschool Group, too? They're multiple choice, and there is prep through the online quizzes. I wouldn't feel bad about doing Physical in 9th, since it's common at the most college-prep public high school in my area. In addition, I've been known to sub parts of science for reading a good book or watching Teaching Company lectures (Physics In Your Life, etc.), and writing up brief summaries. Then we head back into Apologia for a time. And this is with a kid who wants to go into science -- I just feel that goal is helped more by math and by curiosity than by high school science textbooks, but I know I'm odd in that way, so feel free to ignore

2. Bible: Reading the entire Bible in high school is my most important priority, personally. And if the student might need extra time on that, I'd rather start sooner rather than later, just to make sure she really gets to the end. Some of the other book studies for AHL Bible could easily be skipped, since reading the entire OT is an accomplishment in itself.

3. At our homeschool, we just start when we can and continue until we're done. So, my son finished the rest of WHL in October, after 14 months. It wasn't due to special needs (due to life circumstances), but I did the same thing with my older dd, who was more of a difficult learner/difficult teen, and still hasn't finished. I've seen it done in public school, too -- and adults finally finish their high school diplomas all the time by paying special schools for the privilege of earning a real diploma.

4. English: Maybe her English will need to be more remedial. It can still be called English 9. My oldest son is actually a pretty good writer, but he complained he was still learning the difference between to/two/too every year of public high school. They read only 2-3 books per year, often on the level of Tuesdays With Morrie. I'm not saying to aspire to a poor public school's goals, but I'm just saying that it's still considered an education if she's putting in the work & progressing in her skills. So, you have MFW lesson plans and you adapt -- writing essays takes a bit longer, literature is slimmed down a bit or subbed on occasion (I have a few things I subbed somewhere around here, if you get there & need ideas), an audiobook comes in handy for some things like Bubastes, more time is spent on spelling and the like. And maybe it takes more than a year.

5. History: AHL probably needs Notgrass in order to get her ready for textbooks, and it isn't too hard in AHL, with open-book questions and no quizzes that year. DK is also not too hard. A few of the longer chapters in New Answers and Pharaohs could be read and discussed with her by a parent if possible, although you have a pretty busy household there. The timeline and mapping in AHL are not anywhere near as much as WHL, so I might give them a try. And I try to do as much prep as possible in the summer, including cutting out timeline figures and enlarging maps.

6. All these adjustments make it harder on a busy mom, as far as keeping track of things, but maybe this summer you could figure it all out? It sounds like you're good at it.

Also, just checking that she'll turn 14 before starting high school? Hopefully a good while before? And remember, kids change along the way. Usually my son hikes up his skills about halfway through a school year, for some reason.

Best wishes as you figure this out.
Julie
P.S. There are a couple of Special Needs threads in the High School Archives that you might take a look through?

[Tracey in ME]

1. Science: Have you tried having her do the tests through Virtual Homeschool Group, too? They're multiple choice, and there is prep through the online quizzes. I wouldn't feel bad about doing Physical in 9th, since it's common at the most college-prep public high school in my area. In addition, I've been known to sub parts of science for reading a good book or watching Teaching Company lectures (Physics In Your Life, etc.), and writing up brief summaries. Then we head back into Apologia for a time. And this is with a kid who wants to go into science -- I just feel that goal is helped more by math and by curiosity than by high school science textbooks, but I know I'm odd in that way, so feel free to ignore

She actually did that yesterday. She took the VHG quiz a number of times, and only got up to about 70% as the highest score, though, followed by the test. She failed the online test. I then had her do the "alternate test" from the Yahoo Apologia General Science group, which has fill in the blank (with words to choose from), multiple choice, and then a few essay questions at the end. I haven't corrected it yet. She may even have to repeat General Science next year. She's not thrilled about that, but if she fails this year I sure don't feel right about moving her up. She would love doing Biology, Marine Biology, etc....but the high school levels would be too difficult. She'd probably rock the lower levels, but those can't be counted as high school credit, right? Should I consider a different companies' science?

2. Bible: Reading the entire Bible in high school is my most important priority, personally. And if the student might need extra time on that, I'd rather start sooner rather than later, just to make sure she really gets to the end. Some of the other book studies for AHL Bible could easily be skipped, since reading the entire OT is an accomplishment in itself.

I agree, absolutely. Knowing God's word is the most important priority.

5. History: AHL probably needs Notgrass in order to get her ready for textbooks, and it isn't too hard in AHL, with open-book questions and no quizzes that year. DK is also not too hard. A few of the longer chapters in New Answers and Pharaohs could be read and discussed with her by a parent if possible, although you have a pretty busy household there. The timeline and mapping in AHL are not anywhere near as much as WHL, so I might give them a try. And I try to do as much prep as possible in the summer, including cutting out timeline figures and enlarging maps.

Yes, my 16yo daughter even stated that 13yo could more than likely handle the Notgrass. In fact, 16yo dd isn't doing as well in history this year...she misses the ease of Notgrass a bit, I think.

6. All these adjustments make it harder on a busy mom, as far as keeping track of things, but maybe this summer you could figure it all out? It sounds like you're good at it.

That's okay if it isn't easy. This is one of my most important duties as a wife and mom -- making sure my kids get the best education they can...in a way they can understand and get the most out of it, ya know?

Also, just checking that she'll turn 14 before starting high school? Hopefully a good while before? And remember, kids change along the way. Usually my son hikes up his skills about halfway through a school year, for some reason.

Yes, she will be 14 in May of 2013.

Thank you so much, ladies! I may have many more questions this summer. And thank you, Crystal, I might have to call upon Bret as you have.