Placement - Are High School Courses Grade Specific? Switch?

[MFW-Lucy]

Can we start at the time frame we're on?

Does the HS programs get harder each year or could he start w/ the same time frame that we're doing? Or should we switch the order of what we are doing, like start w/ 1850-Mod. instead of CtG? My problem w/ that is that we haven't done much at all in Ancients yet & are so excited about CtG for next year. Thanks for your help!

I am just agreeing that you should just continue through the current cycle as planned. Your oldest will cover all of history again in H.S. and although the ideal is for all to get it once before then, it will be o.k.

It is not recommended to jump into the cycle as a 9th grader in an older level of high school. At one time they thought that may be a possibility but currently as they are developing the program they are finding that it will get a little more difficult each year. just as the other programs do.

The younger years and high school years do not match. The only year that is close is CTG and Ancient History and Lit. Even these years are different. So even if you lined up these years the following year would not be. The high school program has also been made to be done primarily independently so you will not need to teach this and an elementary/Jr. high program.

I hope that helps to give you a little bit of the bigger picture. I think that Crystal's ideas are good for adding in a little bit of history from that last year but even if you find that to be too much it really will be o.k.

Lucy

[MFW-Lucy]

I was wondering if the high school level materials could be rotated, like the younger yrs, once they are all complete? I thought it would be helpful to mom if the material that you are studying could be the same all around. It would also avoid the potential of 2 yrs of Ancient history in a row or very close to each other. Also, if you have multiple dc at the high school level, it would be helpful.

Dear Kirby,
Welcome to the board!

I wanted to share some information from the author about the process of writing the high school curriculum. This will hopefully help you to understand why we feel that once a student reaches high school it is best for them to follow their own track. We do encourage high school kids to join in for family Bible time using the younger sibling's program when possible.

When Marie Hazell, our author, first began writing the high school program it was her intent to try and match the 5 year history cycle history for elementary students with the high school program. However, as she began to investigate high school graduation and college entrance requirements she found this would not be possible. As the program developed it became clear that each year of the program builds upon the next. For example, the Bible and writing in Year 1 prepares the student for the Bible and writing in Year 2. When starting in 9th grade our best recommendation is to study the program in order.

The needs and goals of high school students are different from those of elementary students. Our high school program is a credit based program written to meet high school graduation and college entrance requirements. Also, the amount of time and information that needs to be covered by high school students is too great for younger students. Another difference is that higher level thinking skills are needed to complete high school level work. High school age students are able to analyze and apply information much differently than younger students. Along with great academics, the purpose of our high school curriculum is to help the student develop a heart for God and a strong Biblical worldview. My Father's World high school program is a parent guided, independent study program that prepares students for college level learning or a career. For all of these reasons it was simply not possible for elementary and high school students to use the same programs.

For specific help in making a plan for your family please give our office a call at 573-426-4600 and we will be happy to help you.

Lucy

[Bret Welshymer]

I am/was planning to use MFW world history and literature for my 9th and 12th grader next year, we are doing ancients this year and i'm wondering if this plan is doable. I see that MFW recommends this year for grades 10-12. Thanks
Des

You could talk to the office about possibly spending the rest of this year getting the 9th grader up to speed in writing, so he could join his brother next year? I don't know if they could advise you on AHL materials to accomplish that goal, or whether I'm being unrealistic in thinking that one piece of a 3-credit program could be pulled out?
Just a thought,

It is possible to focus on writing skills in preparation for World History and Literature. However, each year of the high school program builds upon the next. It's not just the composition. Yes, the writing in AHL prepares the student for the writing in WHL. The Bible in AHL also prepares the student for the Bible in WHL. Plus one of our goals for high school is to read through the entire Bible verse by verse with an opportunity for personal application of what is being read. AHL goes through the Old Testament verse by verse with personal application using The Old Testament Challenge. WHL goes through the New Testament verse by verse.

And because the high school program is a parent directed, independent study program there is little impact on the parent of two high school students who are doing two separate programs. We had two high schoolers in two different high school programs and felt like it went very smoothly.

[LA in Baltimore]

We've covered Geography, Ancients, and Middle Ages in our 3 years of homeschooling, and both my upcoming 9th grader and Dad wants the kids to do American History. ( We have an upcoming 5th grader, too )

I'm trying to pull things together myself, but I realize that MFW has a lot of experience in guiding the homeschooling mom...and now a few years under their belt in the High School dept. I am not so sure I could pull something so comprehensive together by myself.

My problem is that Dad is pretty insistent on not "going backwards" and re-covering history we just covered. I was just wondering if you insightful veterans can guide me as to whether American History will be possible for us next year with MFW's help?

DEFINITELY call the office on this one.
I've done the opposite...used Ancients with a 12th grader because that was the only history he hadn't completed. It probably depends on the ability level of your 9th grader and the type of work they have covered before. MFW is a wonderful curriculum, so if there is a way to work it out to use Amer. History with a 9th grader I'd certainly try and do it. They are so helpful at the office that it will be worth the call.

[Julie in MN]

I think LA's suggestion is good -- to think through the student's abilities and then consult the office. Each year of high school is supposed to build on the ones before, but different students will come in at different levels -- and parents also may have different skills in adapting for their needs.

If you do decide to "go back" to the beginning (which I can never do enough, personally!), Dad might be impressed that MFW takes students through the complete Old and New Testaments in the first two years. Also, a few folks have tried to squeeze in an overview of American/modern history before high school here: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... =25#p43579

I think the rest of your family can probably go into American History, but I'd also ask about that while you're at it, since modern history especially can sometimes be a lot for a 5th grader, depending on the child.

I definitely think that whatever you decide, MFW will take you away from that "pulling it all together" frenzy and allow you to spend that time with your kids

Julie

[cbollin]

Agreeing that you'll want to call MFW's office and ask to speak with one of their consultants.

I'll share my opinion too. The high schooler will need to be in a high school level program. And EX1850 isn't high school level. And well....MFW's high school US history program is not really written for 9th grader. It's not just a history program that is part of the issue. from what I have heard about MFW's plans, the English builds up each year too, and the writing builds up. . So I would think it would be one thing to "catch up " one year of English, but 2? well, like we're all saying, perhaps a phone call would be better to talk through that. Also, there is the being ready for the Bible content too in year 3 HS--- I get the idea that also works better for the student when they are just a tiny bit older than turning 15.

I know you're thinking -- but I don't want to teach 2 levels. MFW high school is written for the student to take more responsibility for doing their own school work and parents are there to guide.

Another aspect of it has to do with the idea that you are going backwards when you start 9th grade. I think of 9th grade as the beginning of high school and it makes great sense to me to just start at the beginning in a new level and new stage of learning. School is more than chronological history. At the same time, I understand your husband doesn't want to the soon to be 9th grader to miss out on any American History. One suggestion? If all you want is to cover very briefly highlights of US history from about 1600's to modern for this 8th grader --- what about just using Children's Encyclopedia of American History (it's in MFW's year 5 package 1850mod) you'll have him read through the materials. It's not heavy. But it will fill in the gaps before high school starting. And will hold over until 11th grade. In MFW year 3 high school, students will have the opportunity to do a CLEP prep in US history part 1 (up to 1877), so they are going to cover it very well in MFW high school. So, maybe if there is just enough for now to fill in gaps, then your soon to be high schooler will be ready by September to start at the very beginning.

One of the many things when we get to this level of homeschooling --- get a 4 year plan in mind. To that end, take a look on this high school sample page -- go to page 10 and 11
http://mfwbooks.com/pdf/whlsample.pdf

• Why Ancient History and Literature in high school?
  While reviewing the sequence of the high school program you may be asking, "Can my student skip Ancient History and Literature since it is not a state requirement for graduation?" Though not state-required, My Father's World believes Ancient History and Literature is critical to a Biblical scope and sequence for high school. This program provides high school students with a solid foundation in Bible that includes reading the entire Old Testament. Integrating Old Testament readings with the study of ancient cultures and literature meets the greater goal of educating children with solid Christian beliefs, while achieving strong academic goals. Ancient History and Literature helps high school students embrace a strong Biblical worldview by developing analytical skills and spiritual maturity. Students will be faced with many thought-provoking life issues including, "Will I live for my pleasure, or will I live for God's glory?" Ancient History and Literature is important for all high school students, even those who have recently studied this time period. Don't miss this great opportunity to give your children more of God's heart for His people and His creation while preparing them for college or a career.

blessings,
-crystal

[3blessings]

I just want to pop in here really quickly....

I want to thank you SO VERY MUCH for your replies. I am going to go back, read them even more closely, and talk it over with Dad.

[Julie in MN]

This poor child has had way too much time in Ancients study (SL & TOG), and very little in Middle and US, but I want to use MFW high school. It appeals to me. I could make him do AHL, but I'd really rather not. So, what is the problem with using WHL before AHL? Every post I read says that one really should begin with AHL, but nothing I have read tells me why that is, exactly. WHL would fit our history cycle, whereas AHL would be very redundant for us. I'm also thinking that the reading and answering questions for the entire OT would be better suitable for an older child, it seems awfully daunting for 9th grade. I'm old and versed on the OT and it seems daunting to ME! =)

Anyhow, someone please help me! I don't know what to do! I want to go ahead and order WHL and be done with my decision making, but I'm so worried I will get it and realize I should have gone a different route.

I think part of the reason is that history starts at the beginning, and the tragedies of human history mean nothing without the fall and God's plan for restoration.

But as for AHL specifically, I think it's an intro to high school writing, with one major writing form studied in depth (the argumentative essay) and other more gentle writing assignments.

Also the reading is a little more intro to high school. Notgrass is a much gentler textbook than the BJU book use in years 3-4, and not even half of Notgrass is used in year one. Of course, as you mentioned, the Bible is a longer text but it's more of a heart book and not a treasury of facts to memorize. The literature is really one thing at a time, with the option of adding some of your own easier reading each day -- AHL studies only 3 pieces of literature in great depth and others are covered more lightly; whereas WHL I think studies many more pieces in some depth.

Hopefully someone who has actually done both years will chime in, too.

Have you read the MFW statements on that?
http://www.mfwbooks.com/category/M50/50#why (I guess you have to click on the "curriculum" tab and then on the "Why Ancient History and Literature in high school?" link.)
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6809

[mfwstudent]

Hi LissaSue

I'm a student in AHL this year. One of the things we do is service projects. Mom said since I waste too much time playing on computer games that I should spend that energy and time on computer to help others. So I've been trying to post on some threads over here as my service hours this week instead of getting busted for spending too much time on computer. I say that because I don't want anyone to think I'm a bragging bratty kid talking to adults.

I did Creation to the Greeks in 8th grade. And this year in 9th, I'm in AHL. I didn't mind doing back to back ancients. It made some stuff easier so I could do more science, math, Bible, and work on writing. I have really enjoyed doing the Old Testament readings. The answers each day are only a few questions (maybe 3-4) and I don't have to write long fancy answers to them. I haven't used WHL yet, but I like starting at beginning with stuff, and with high school credits, it just made it easier on my mom to start at the beginning too.

[LissaSue2]

Thank you, Julie! No, I had not read any of those items you linked. It definitely sounds like AHL for 9th is the better course of action, so I've got a lot to chew on, and pray about.

Thank you mfwstudent! I'm beginning to warm up to the idea, I think.

[cbollin]

Hi. I think my DD will cry if I tell her she has to go back (again) to study ancient history and literature next year, instead of continuing from the Reformation where we will end, on to the 18th century history where there will be something new and exciting to learn. What will we do?

Regards,
Julie Akers

couple of options:

1. use something other than MFW for a year It's ok. really. You don't want to use MFW"s 11th and 12th grade programs with a 9th grader. let me rephrase that... my oldest is an advanced student and it would have been too much for her.

2. you can play high school guidance counselor and "dictate" to your child her course of social studies in high school and let her choose with electives to have something new to study that way. One advantage is that will give you more time on English and essays.

2.5. you can start at AHL, let her pick some electives, and let her read more of the history that she is wanting to read about. In AHL, there is a time for free reading. Now, it can be from ancients, but it is not required to be. So, she could read other stuff very lightly knowing that in WHL more will be covered in world history from where you will end this year. Keep it light.

3.0 - summer school to read from SOTW vol. 3 (sounds like you are in RTR this year?)

4. other.... there's always other
***
How many times has she read through the entire Old Testament? How much of the literature has she done? My oldest did CTG in 8th and AHL in 9th. Because we knew ahead of time (as in during 8th grade) that we'd do this, she had time to be ok about it. Sounds like you've done CTG in 7th and RTR in 8th?

No matter what you and your daughter decide, it's time to plan it out for 4 years for high school. Look at what you will require for graduation (with either looking at what colleges want to see, or any requirements you have in your state, or with your umbrella school).

lots of options

I am a history nerd, and have worked through history through DD's elementary years before I purchased curriculum and never made it to more modern history study, or even serious American history study. Her knowledge of US history is contained in Schoolhouse Rock cartoons, and "Liberty's Kids". And she is 13.

So in My Father's World, the literature to study starts off with "The Illiad". It would be the third time she has had the story
presented in her curriculum. Other high school options I am looking at start there as well. As a high school freshman, myself, I didn't touch any history until junior year and it was US history with US literature presented in English, the only year without Shakespeare.

But I am a bit of a chicken about striking out on my own, cobbling together a curriculum that allows us to talk about history together, middle schooler, elementary schooler and high schooler.

I like your first point! In fact, it is rather terrifying to consider something other than MFW for her curriculum.

well.. AHL doesn't start with Iliad.

and Iliad is actually a quasi optional book. it can be skipped.

more later..... maybe Julie in MN or someone can explain better.

(((hugs))))

[Julie in MN]

Such decisions, eh?!

Well, the logic of starting "at the beginning" in high school makes sense to me. The student is owning the cycle for himself this time, from the beginning, from creation and the fall of man. The biggest "text" is reading the entire Old Testament, and that's something I love reading again and again.

As for the literature, I wouldn't worry too much about that. You can always sub a book out. I wanted my son to read Oedipus, so we subbed out some of the Odyssey for that. If you've homeschooled for a while, it probably isn't that big a deal to switch one thing or another. As for the Homer stories in particular, my son read the Children's Homer in 4th, the Rosemary Sutcliff versions in 7th, and he really didn't know/remember all that much when we read the real thing in AHL. We also watched the Teaching Company lectures during AHL, so that added a new dimension -- not necessary, but just saying that there are things you can do to draw her in as long as you don't let go of some of the main goals, such as solidifying the argumentative essay, or comparing and holding up Biblical history next to secular ideas in history/science/literature.

I think all of us who have used MFW high school will just tell you that AHL is written for 9th graders and the other years aren't. That's hard for those who want to start high school in a different place. But it makes sense in a lot of ways -- starting a "rhetoric level" run-through with creation and the fall, when it all began; putting a complete run-through of the entire Bible up front & center; and saving some of the more immediate issues of modern history for students who are closer to adulthood...

And finally I'll add that I've always felt kids who start AHL just after doing CTG will have an easier transition to high school? In some ways, they will be on familiar ground, I think?

Just some more things to think through as you agonize over what is best for your young lady,
Julie

[cbollin]

I have an idea or two... if mfw is what you want to do (I understand that... kwim?)

an idea to consider is to change "reading time" for the 8th grade to be from a book in 1850MOD called Children's Encyclopedia of American History. and continue to read it through the summer. Yes, there will be some jumps from where you are in Story of the World, but it will be ok.... it will give enough information on US history.

then, for more US history while in AHL in the fall.... current events and track the election.

well, my reason for that? well, I was so called "honors track" advanced nerd track, or something like that in jr. high and high school. I didn't do chronological history either. Did some US history in 4th grade and that was the year of the big field trip to Williamsburg and Jamestown and Yorktown. That's what I remember from 4th grade.. well, it was the year Star Wars came out. but I remember that field trip. scared out of my mind away from home... in a hotel... (it's ok crystal... happy place. happy thoughts... you homeschool.. .it's ok...)

anyway? jr. high? it wasn't history like MFW. but I was a nerd. My parents had these picture encyclopedia books Time Life Decade in Pictures. that's what I read to be prepared for high school history. I think I took geography? no... I didn't... did I skip social studies in 9th? I took biology instead of earth science... Then in 10th grade, World History, one of the football coaches, who was a vietnam vet with one leg, taught world history... and you know what? Coach Miles started with Creation and the Garden of Eden (what??? Public Schools???? it was the south... no one cared)

Has she read Cat of Bubastes?
epic of gilgamesh?
yes, you can sub Iliad. it's "quasi" optional in the plans.
Odyssey. lots of good analysis and thinking questions...
then, free reading time in English too.

Maybe she'll be ok if you talk with her for the reasons for doing it. You can tell her that my daughter (like any of you know me or anything) found it ok to do CTG then AHL. it was different enough. made it easier to get some history done faster and concentrate on other stuff. talk about the Bible reading together.....

I know it's hard as they enter a new stage of learning..... (((hugs)))
-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Hi! I am writing with what is probably an age old question. I am in a dilema about using AHL for 9th. I am not sure if he will be homeschooled all the way through and Ancients is not required for his graduation. Would you have him do the ancients or US? I really want him to do the ancients, but would it then be considered an elective for transcripts? Thanks in advance. I will have several programs running despite the one program goal of MFW..lol

Thanks for your advice,
Rebecca

I'm not sure *our* school district would accept *any* homeschooled courses on their transcript. They don't have to.

But if they did accept homeschool credits, then likely they would accept some alternatives. After all, most schools do have more than one option for their students (our city school has "current issues" and "psychology" as options). Plus, they certainly have incoming students from other public schools who have different courses, including private Christian schools with Bible credits, so it's possible they'd accept your course. I'd ask. And ask again, because often I get a different answer then

As far as ancients, that would be a big goal for me in homeschooling. If I was keeping my child home for one last year, it would be for the purpose of teaching the important things that I didn't think he would get in the public schools. So, likely I would choose *all* classes that weren't on the ps roster And worst case scenario is just that your student has to do some requirements in 12th grade, instead of electives, because he "used up" those on reading the Old Testament I went to three different high schools, so I always had to take some class or other that the new school required, and I still graduated early. I did keep on top of those requirements, though, and kept reminding new counselors that I had met them in different ways.

As far as doing US history, that's really an 11th-12th grade program. I'd hesitate to use it with a 9th grader.

HTH,
Julie

[cbollin]

I would not put a 9th grader in MFW's US1 or US2.

I'd do ancients in a heartbeat on it. If they have an elective in social studies in 9th grade, so what?
In my state, both "world history" and "ancient history" meet the eligibility for 1 credit social studies that isn't US history. so.. my child will have Ancient, World, US 1 (probably with CLEP credit), Gov't and Econ.
if they have an academic elective in 9th, well.. what's the problem? I don't understand the concern really.

I have a leader in my adult sunday school class who is in his late 40's in age. He was a military child and moved around a lot in high school. Lots of public schools. sometimes middle of the year. He graduated. None of those public schools cared one iota about what other schools were doing. they tweaked and made it work.

I know my non christian mother in law did not plan for her 2nd son to be withdrawn in middle of 9th grade public to be placed in a rehab center and then go to private alternative school for 10th, 11th, 12th grade. The school he enrolled in figured it all out.

personally... what we decided was to do our school the way we wanted. and if something happens that changes our homeschooling... we're pretty sure it will all work out.

If you know you are not going to homeschool all the way through high school.. may I be nosy and ask what grade will your child enter public school? can I be nosy and ask which state so I can be nosy and look up those requirements and try to brainstorm with you how MFW sequence would/wouldn't help? now of course, the public school could reject it all, make you test a bunch of placement tests, etc......

but in our city, there is a Classical Private school. if any of those kids transferred out... they would have ancients and Latin.

That's all I really needed to hear ... thanks. Just nervous with first opportunity to homeschool highschool. I have been floundering a bit lately with meeting everyones needs, and just needed a little hand holding. thanks! I will be using K, 1st, ECC(3 in this category one with special needs) and AHL next year if all goes according to plan:) May need some more hand holding as August rolls around:)
Rebecca

well.. we like holding hands over here.. and ((hugs))

my quick advice? start the high schooler a week ahead of others... and call it "freshman orientation week".

and if he transfers out to group school.... it will vary so much and he'll take placement tests and all of that to get in right English and math. He might have to prove something for other courses. public school isn't going to care on Bible credit...

think of 1st semester of 9th as easing into the high school years... you don't have to shut them out and ship them to their rooms all the time.. be available to listen to them talk to you (or email you) with scripture discoveries... be available to listen to them vent "this book is so stupid and I hate school.. how come I don't get to do anything fun!" (giggle....) or vent with "I HATE writing and I can't get my stupid brain to think!" times like that is when I'm willing to let youngers go play and not worry on them while holding teen hand,

no matter where they go to school.. be available to just listen when they do that...

oh dear... I think I have to wake up the teen this morning.. she's supposed to help at church with the community easter outreach event. (aka egg stuff)

-crystal

[kayben]

Thank you. I am really looking forward to the year. Ben really loves Greek Mythology and I am excited to see that this is a part of AHL. I look forward to him reading the old testament, as well as my husband and maybe myself as well. I am heading to MACHE in a couple of weeks and can look everything over! Thanks for the advice to spend the time with him that he needs to talk with me and work through the transition to HS.

[ilovemy4kids]

My dd15 (sophomore) is just finishing WHL. LOVED it (well, I did...she probably just liked it ). We have US1 for her for next year.

I have an upcoming 9th grader who has yet to study American History in depth...little snippets here and there and some early american with HOD RtR). He REALLY wants to study American History for 9th. I had originally planned to use All American History 1 for him, using the suggested extensions for high schoolers, along with Lightning Literature Early American. I had still planned for him to do AHL in 11th and WHL in 12th. He is not a strong reader nor does he particularly enjoy it, but he is certainly grade level. He IS a strong writer...particularly creative. He is capable of higher level thinking and my husband and I often remark how very deep his mind is for a 14yo.

So, here is my question. Could a 9th grader (my 9th grader) do US1 and US2 for 9th/10th and then AHL/WHL for 11th/12th? Here is one thing I have noticed: Lightning Lit Early American schedules 3 of the same books used in US1 (Scarlet Letter, Frederick Douglass and Autobiography of Ben Franklin). I don't think the BJU text would be too difficult for ds14...challenging...but not too much so. I had planned for him to use Under God for Government already next year. I'm really trying to simplify my life next year but don't want to over-challenge ds14...he is still very immature academically in a lot of ways (mostly in his attitude, motivation and independence). Very bright...just not very motivated. So, what say you? Could he do US1/2 in 9th/10th and then AHL/WHL in 11th/12th?

This is EXACTLY what we are doing.... My ds is just finishing WHL and is ready to start US to 1877 in the fall. DD starting 9th will do US to 1877 also then, US2, then AHL followed by WHL her senior year. Here is a link to my earlier post where I talked about this....
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12653

I am also putting together an online discussion group via skype or web conferencing software for this coming year to allow students to discuss US to 1877 with other students as well as parents. If you are interested, let me know.

Blessings,
Sandra

[Julie in MN]

So, what say you? Could he do US1/2 in 9th/10th and then AHL/WHL in 11th/12th?

Hmmm, I'm one who can adapt most anything. But what to think through first? Maybe these types of things?

1. I might show the 9th grader the two textbooks - Notgrass and BJU are very different textbooks. Notgrass is large print, lots of white space, and used over 2 years. The first year there are questions but no quizzes; the second year there are 10-question quizzes. BJU is small print, less white space, and used over 2 semesters. It looks like the accountability goes up with the quizzes & such, although I haven't used it yet.

2. I'd open up the samples and scroll down to the "grade sheets." US1 is here (pages 13-14):
http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... sample.pdf
AHL is here (pages 8-9)
http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... sample.pdf

Notice the Bible in AHL is based on things like effort, daily work, and discussion. The Bible in US1 is based on quite a bit more. Also, a solid understanding of the entire Bible might be assumed during the Worldview study in US1 - does your younger student have that on board?

Also look at the history credit on the us1 sample, and remember that history is *one semester* and government is the other semester, while the AHL credit for history is over the entire year.

3. While you have the US1 sample open, scroll through the "Lesson Overview" (pages 3-6) and notice the range of literature covered, which is often in the Literature Supplement. The sample weeks (pages 15 & 17) also show some of this literature supplement in action. It is similar to the AHL lit supplement, but that one only covers a few things in depth (argumentative essay, grammar review, and 3 works of literature), rather than the kind of range covered in the US1 lit supplement. I tried to describe the samples in more depth here: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... us1#p86866


I think you both have a better chance of success because you've both used WHL this year, and you're familiar with high school, and MFW high school. Just trying to help you decide about your younger ones.
Julie

[cbollin]

I think you both have a better chance of success because you've both used WHL this year, and you're familiar with high school, and MFW high school. Just trying to help you decide about your younger ones.

got to agree with Julie on that statement. Yes, things can be tweaked if a family decides that younger sib should be in same program as 11th grade sib. No, it is not recommended as the general advice because skills are built over the first two years. yes.. there will be exceptions out there where God is saying otherwise.

with all of that said, I'm glad I didn't put my oldest in US1 in 9th grade. I"m glad she's going through it in order.


Hi Sue! wasn't expecting to see you over here. nice to see ya! ((hugs))

Some things in your description of your son have set off some kind of red flags in my head.

He is not a strong reader nor does he particularly enjoy it, but he is certainly grade level. He IS a strong writer...particularly creative.

and this

I'm really trying to simplify my life next year but don't want to over-challenge ds14...he is still very immature academically in a lot of ways (mostly in his attitude, motivation and independence).

hmm...that second quote won't leave my head. I have a lot of doubts based on that, that US1 as a full course is best fit for studying US history in 9th grade for him. I'm totally in favor of it in Sandra's family. but.. I can't place my finger on this... it's not the reading books that you see listed. that's not the issue...

That Stobaugh based American Literature Supplement.. hmmm... I have the US1 box right here.. I haven't done US1 yet start soon... there's just something in here in this Lit Supplement.. the writing isn't creative writing. You've done AHL and WHL... you'll have to decide if this younger son has learned the essay skills and other writing from WHL. How much writing time is he use to each day?

look through that stobaugh book... (it's the american literature supplement).... read through the writing assignments.. You already have US1 if I read your post correctly.. . how much outside motivation will it take for him? will it come from you, older siblings...

also... glance through the daily lesson planner at the appendix pages (are you ready to copy that for 2nd sibling,.. me neither! I already zipped off my email to MFW saying "please? separate packet for all of that, please???? please " anyway, my copier phobias aside.. what are you thoughts on the Worldview course with this 14 y. o? There are the 2 options for amount of time for parent to be involved. I think due to the 14 y.o age, you will need to take the option 1, more parent involvement route (I am taking that route.)

Also, the other part of the gov't course is Never Before in History, and the study guide questions for that are in the appendix of the us1 daily planner....

I'm not ready to say "oh, yeah. sandra can pull it off and Sue can't"... I just want to make sure Sue's eyes see the other parts of the program, and thinks,, ok... if we do this route.. my 14 y.o is going to need some other help and it might become a group teaching..... (ooh.. sandra's online discussion group? maybe that will be the motivation he needs? none of knows how that will go....
Will he be ready for the amount of independence? if not... what adjustments overall for the rest of the younger siblings?

I'm very glad I didn't have my oldest do this course in 9th grade. I'm also remember that originally MFW was going to try to write the high school so it could be done with siblings in the 1-2 years apart range... but it didn't pan out that way with pilot families. doesn't mean God couldn't make it happen for others.

hope some of those thoughts add something. Yes. AHL and WHL could be done in 11th and 12th even if you use other stuff for 9th and 10th.

-crystal

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks ladies. Sandra I did see your post in my earlier searches and it is very helpful. I think your discussion group will be very helpful for my dd. Sign us up! Julie and Crystal you both give me some good food for thought.

I looked through my US1 pack last night. On the surface it looks doable for him but do i want just doable? This child will need some hand holding at first. So I wonder how simple life will be regardless of the program he uses lol! I'm almost decided to purchase AHL (I sold it ) and if ds14 is truly interested in American History he could read through All American History at his leisure. Its not a difficult read. What intrigues me about this plan is the Bible portion of AHL...reading through the old testament. And the writing instruction being more explicit. I could tweak US1 and have him do only what he seems capable of but the program is so good as is...I wouldn't want him to miss all the 'meat' kwim? He would be much more prepared in 11th. There is also the very silly reason for doing AHL...so that dd15 can keep using her own program...she likes that.

[ilovemy4kids]

I know you will be happy with AHL, it is an incredible year! My son got so much out of it, and to be honest, I wanted to do it with DD this year. She originally wanted to do it. But, she asked to do this with her brother. She has an amazing gift of compassion and love. She is willing to do and capable of all the work except a few of the Essays which I addressed our plan for above.

Just considering DD, I know it would be a better fit, academically, and the spiritual opportunity for growth in AHL is out of this world. However, for our family, combining the kids was a prayerful choice based on many factors. Our son was suffering depression from feeling "isolated" from his sister. I had been doing an intensive program, Starting Points, with his sister and leading a real live coop for starting points as well. Up until he started 9th grade with AHL, they had always been together for everything except math, English and even science until 7th grade Apologia. We also have had many, many family changes and issues over the past 4 years which have been hard on the kids. Praise God for his Awesome power of healing and restoration! The point is, if I had my druthers with none of the above issues, I would had DD in AHL, plain and simple. BUT, the Lord has clearly directed us in this route. My husband is positive, and I am pretty sure

Enjoy the AHL and the US1 with both of your wonderful blessings and have fun!

If you will send me a pm with the title, US1 group, I will add you to the list!


Blessings
Sandra

[Sue G in PA]

I'm so glad you have peace about your decision, Sandra. It sounds like, for your children, this is the best choice. Academically, my ds14 and dd15 are miles apart. Dd15 has always been very motivated and independent with her studies. My ds12 is much the same way. Ds14...not so much. I think he is *capable* of doing the work much more independently than he is but I think her *prefers* the one-on-one interaction and actually being "taught" instead of reading to find information on his own. My goal next year is to gradually move him toward independency...and after some more thought...AHL will probably be the best way to do that. He is so NOT a "box checker" like my ds12. MFW will be a much better fit for ds14..less boxes to "check", more streamlined in the focus (HOD was just too "busy" for him).

Postby Sue G in PA » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:36 pm
My BPCD (BiPolar Curriculum Disorder) is rearing its ugly head again. Can I never just make up my mind and stick with anything? LOL. Anyway, after more prayer and talking with my ds14 (9th grader), and with my dh, and after looking at the materials for US1 more thoroughly, I have decided to do as Sandra is doing with her 9th and 11th graders and combine them in US1. Ds14 expressed HIS desire to be studying what the rest of the family was studying (instead of him doing Ancients when everyone else was doing American History) and my dh reminded me that my ds14 is a much deeper thinker than even perhaps his older sister and has always seemed to just "get" things that are well beyond his years. He also reminded me that his ability level is far beyond what even ds14 thinks it is. Dh said, "Perhaps it is time to set the bar a bit higher and see what happens. This IS high school and he IS capable of MUCH more than he has been doing." Hmmmm....ever wonder if YOU, the parent, are the one who is holding the student back? Perahaps my "coddling" of ds14 was doing more harm than good. If I start saying, "you can do this even though it might take more effort" instead of "this will be really difficult, I'm not sure if you are ready for this", I have a feeling ds14 will rise to the challenge. And with dd15 there as his "running mate"...who knows what will happen? My plan is to "tweak" the writing assignments scheduled in US1 to fit ds's ability level. FWIW...My fallback for him if it DOES seem WAY over his head is to bump him back down into All American History. I'm really excited about this. Not only are ALL of us studying American History now, but I think this challenge might be just what the dr. ordered for ds14. Thanks for all the input ladies.

[cbollin]

Sue (and it might help Sandra too on this heads up)
Each child will need his/her copy of the TLAC appendix pages in US1. You need to either copy them or match them up from the TLAC cd and print.
(assuming they are doing the same Bible/Worldview as well as same history topic. I'm sure they'll be fine in history/gov't together)

The appendix pages in US1 that are for gov't book do not seem to be consumable, but if you have 2 children, you still might want to have 2 copies. Wanted to let you know in advanced... that's a LOT of copying or printing. Get started on it now.

and Sue, just be totally nosy.... what will the 14 y.o do for literature? As much as I don't want your BPCD to flare up (giggle. giggle.. thanks for the laugh!), I was just curious and seemed to have missed that.

-crystal

[Sue G in PA]

Glad to give you a chuckle, Crystal. My plan is to use the US1 Literature pretty much as-is for him and see how he does. I will obviously expect less of him for the writing assignments and perhaps omit some of them since he will be using R&S English for writing as well. There is a lot of reading...which isn't his strong-point but he is capable. So, I plan to let him use audiobooks for some of the books. I found a great site called Lit2Go which has free downloads of a TON of classic books. I will purchase another Student Journal for Thinking Like a Christian. Thanks for the heads up about the copying...I don't mind doing it...but thanks for the warning to get started soon! LOL.

[MFW-Lucy]

Hi Ladies,

Because many will take a look at this thread I felt it was important to chime in on this thread. As I respond on this thread I want to say up front that MFW always leaves room for each family to make the decision each year for their families that they think are best regardless of our recommendations. We do however have recommendations regarding high school progression when using MFW high school. The authors experiences as well as those of our staff and pilot families have been used to make this recommendations.

Our high school program is a parent guided, independent study program. Each year builds upon itself, so we suggest studying the program in order. The Bible and composition in Year 1, Ancient History and Literature, are a foundation for the Bible and composition in Year 2, World History and Literature and the Bible and composition in Year 2 are preparation for the Bible and the worldview study in year 3. The Biblical worldview in Year 3, US History to 1877, is better understood and processed by an older student (ages 16 or 17). So beginning a younger student at a higher level means that they may not have the foundational skills or developed thinking that will prepare them for the latter years.

My children are two years apart and have used these programs during the last few years. I can really see how each year has built on the other. Neither my son, nor my daughter would have been able to comprehend or gain as much from years 3 and 4 as 9th and 10 graders as they have been able to as 11th and 12th graders. I can see the wisdom in the author’s recommendation, now that my children are completing the high school curriculum. (My daughter graduated this year! Yea!!!)

If you have further questions, please let us know or give our office a call to speak with our high school specialist at 573-202-2000.

Blessings,
Lucy