American History -Younger siblings & those starting MFW late

[HSmommi2mine]

Concerned about no US history until year 5

My oldest did Adventures, so he has some knowledge of US history. Now that we've started the five year cycle, I guess this means that my 7 and 8 year olds won't learn any US history until four years from now??? Should I be teaching them that along with what were already doing?

National holidays are a good time to pull out some of the fun books and activities you did with the oldest in Adventures. It really isn't that big of a deal, we are just conditioned to believe that all kids need to do US history for years and years and years in early elementary school. You can always incorporate some great books that include Am. history into book basket and family read-aloud time. The little house books or "childhood of famous Americans" are wonderful books that will help your kids learn about our country.

Really, you will be there before you know it because is starts in year 4. Keep in mind that you will study the US a bit in ECC and you could always extend that a bit and do an extra couple of weeks about the US, culture and geography. Maybe your oldest could take this opportunity to help you plan and teach some of his favorite things from Adventures to the younger siblings.

This is why I love keeping my MFW packages. I know I will use them again in 5 years but I have also found that I pull out pieces as they apply to what we are doing now. Have fun in MFW!

[Julie in MN]

Laura,
I was worried about that once upon a time, too. Now that I'm teaching a 7th grader, I find it's been okay.

First of all, there is definitely some of America studied throughout
* ECC spends at least a couple of weeks on the US
* CTG? Well, the Bible applies to America, eh?!
* RTR has explorers & some very early Americas
* Years 4 & 5 are full of the USA

Since we started year 4 (a little over a year ago), my son has read many of the "younger" books about the US that I was excited to have him read. And I found myself wondering what he really would have gotten out of them in the early grades. I'm sure he would've gotten something, but he definitely understands things more deeply now. So he didn't miss them, he just did them later.

Now that we've finished year 4 & are starting year 5, I find he's ready to read longer books, and he's ready to face the more intimate, recent history with slavery & wars his grandparents may have fought in & political decisions we still struggle with today. It's just right for him.

[4Truth]

Do you still have your Adventures stuff? It's a great tool to use as the holidays come 'round, since many of those are covered in ADV. Using either the scheduled read-alouds or the Book Basket list, you can pull books to read on MLK Jr. Day, President's Day, Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Easter, 4th of July.... oh, I'm not going to go down the list of all the holidays at this time of night. LOL. I'm just saying there will be plenty of opportunity to do fun stuff on America with the littles while waiting on years 4 and 5. Also, as you work your way through the years, you'll see a lot of the same themes popping up again and again. I know for example that the recipe for Resurrection Cookies is in both Adventures and RTR.

[mgardenh]

I don't want to come across as negative or that US history isn't important because it is. But if you think about it, it's a very small amount of history compared to all of history. You have 4 or 5 thousand years to cover of history and Us history is on about 500 years. So not having it until 1850 to mod is just fine. Also if you stay with MFW it looks like one [two] of the years will cover US history. I think it is plenty considering the grand scheme of things.

[cbollin]

When I was in elementary school I learned more US history from watching School House Rock than they taught us before 4th grade state history.

You remember those? (get the DVD) I'm just a bill..... etc.
And then, take the family on field trips in your state.
get some books on holidays.

That's enough until year 4 for those younger sibs. Year 4 is EX1850 and that's when you'll start...

-crystal

[kellybell]

Agreeing that US history sort of falls into place before you see it "on the grid." Kids get a lot of informal USA history before it's presented in the TM. Here are things we have done in the past to infuse US history into our studies (some intentional and some not):

1. My dd's volunteer at the local living history ranch. WIth this alone, they've learned about homesteading, pioneer crafts, the Victorian era in the USA, westward expansion.

2. We toured our city's local old cementary. There's history in it.

3. We've been to our city's local museum.

4. We've read picture books and chapter books (library and our own) on USA history. They aren't dry. Things like My Brother Sam is Dead (first one that popped in my head) tell a great story and teach a lot of history. It's easy to find books on George Washington, slavery, Betsy Ross, the dust bowl, etc.

5. Some Adventures in Odyssey episodes are about history (there's one on the undeground railroad, a lot on our founding fathers, etc.) We listen at night when it's on the radio, but have also purchased a few of these to listen to on road trips.

6. We've watched a few TV shows like Little House.

7. We've volunteered for political campaigns.

8. We talk a little or read a little before holidays like President's Day or July 4.

9. We've attended little plays that schools put on regarding historical events.

10. The local paper (and many local papers around the USA) have the Mini Page which often has history in it. Fun to read.

11. I watch the news now and then. And the kids watched a lot with the elections and the inauguration. They are seeing how government works. And, older homeschoolers can go visit their state legislature and watch it work.

Actually, I think it would be hard to hide USA history from our children. It's really "out there" if you look around. By the time you get to formally teaching it, you will have covered a lot of it in bits and pieces. The formal curriculum just ties it all together and fills in the holes. By putting it later in the cycle, you build a good foundation and background and things "make sense." Programs that teach USA history before world often don't have the stage set properly. To the kids in these programs, the USA just sort of appears...

Just my opinions...

Thanks everyone for your ideas and info! I guess I won't stress about it and just informally teach it until I get to year 5! I feel much better!

[cbollin]

There are two very strong schools of thought on whether to start younger elementary kids with Am. History or World History and I can't decide yet what's right for DS. I am praying about it. And I know, regardless of what we do now, it will be repeated later, so I don't need to stress too much over it. I'm just trying to collect my thoughts on the matter.

When I was young in my mothering and homeschooling days, I was never bothered by introducing my kid to greek myths and other thoughts. After all, I wanted them to know stuff. I was raised in public school and read the same Greek/Roman mythology stories over and over. It was not in the curriculum at school. It was in the library at my school. I remember enjoying the stories and thought this could be fun to do stories with my kids. What I forgot was that I was in 4th or 5th grade before I read those stories the first time. (see what happens when you talk with your own mom.....) I was inspired to read them because my favorite TV show at the time was BattleStar Galactica. (the old version, thank you) I wanted to know the stories behind the names of Apollo, Athena, and the names of the 12 tribes of Kobol so that I could learn more about a TV show that I watched. Now, stop it folks. I wasn't in a Christian home. I became a believer when I was 19.

Even though I started to read those stories to my oldest, I wised up and realized she was hearing those stories too young. I mean even my parents who didn't go to church knew that it wasn't right to let a kid too young read those things.

I know we all have different ways to teach our kids. All of these programs have different starting points for elementary kids. You want them to remember the right stuff at the right age of life. We all have different goals.What are your goals? select the program that fits best to the top priority.

I didn't "ruin" my kid forever (neither did my parents with me). But I'm glad my 2nd child doesn't know any of those myths just yet. She'll be in 5th grade next year, that's when I learned them, and she will too. But I'm glad that we waited. I still went on to graduate high school with honors and graduated from a top 20 university in the nation without having had 3 cycles of chronological history that started with Sumer.

Side note: when I was in 10th grade PUBLIC school, my world history teacher started with Creation. huh? I still remember that day in class. I wasn't a Christian either. He started off saying our textbook starts in the wrong place. It picks up later. Scholars recognize that the Holy Bible records historical events that took place before Sumer. So let's start with the earliest known societies and people. Adam and Eve. His question to us was this: Do you think people are good or evil or both? And how did there get to be so many languages in the world? oh yes, he did. And he had the biology teacher/driver's ed teach/tennis coach/ sponsor of the Fellowship of Christian athletes ask us about Big Bang theory while we were sitting in study hall doing nuthin' else. They fought for my worldview. anyway. i don't know why I'm sharing that part of my life right now.

the only other thing that I felt like I wanted to share was not as personal. In the MFW cycle, you don't really "begin" with American History. That's actually the ending point for the "first cycle" of programs. so, if someone does K, then gets some history in ancients, Bible, OT,NT, then that kid jumps to about 1000 AD (Vikings) then up to 1500, 1600. But ADV is "technically" on the MFW chronological thingy the last year of the first cycle for oldest kid.

anyway. It's a lot to think about. I continue to pray for you to have peace in your decision and clear direction from the Lord in what HE is calling you to do.

-crystal

[mommysweird]

Thank you so much Crystal for sharing your personal story. I know it was God-led and you will be blessed for your obedience. What you don't know is I've been so torn about the Am. History/World History issue because of the state of our country these days. I almost fear that if I don't show him the roots now my freedom to teach those things might change later. I'm almost sensing urgency in the matter, but I waffle so much. Our church is challenging everyone to prayer and fasting right now and when I start participating in that, I'm going to commit this subject to a large portion of my prayer. I'm so jealous for my children to have a holy respect for God and a God-honoring patriotism for this country.

I'm a little concerned that someone new to the board might think that MFW never uses fables or legends or anything. And that's not true. It's just a timing issue. For example in ECC, some book basket titles are various legends around the world. MFW doesn't isolate the kids, and tries to help us not expose at the "wrong" age either. It's an Insulating Approach. Lots of balance in MFW.

-crystal

No confusion here. I understood that you were just encouraging the waiting to introduce. Not keeping the fables/legends and the like from the children altogether. Just introducing at a more appropriate age.

[4Truth]

Kim, since you're already aware of the fact that there were two very strong schools of thought on what to teach first, you may have already read this. But here's an article explaining some good reasons to at least do an "overview" of American history with little ones: http://www.bfbooks.com/s.nl/it.I/id.2/.f

And I guess I question in the big scheme of things, what's the big deal about doing it strictly chronologically in those first years, anyway? Number one, even those who agree with that train of thought admit that they don't remember a whole lot, anyway. They just have fun with it. And number two, you'll have two more chances to do Ancients "in-depth" and then MORE "in-depth"... what is the long term profit of exposing them to all the false gods and religions of that time at such a young age? There will be a lot of people who can tell you WHY to do American history first (such as the article above), but I would ask... why NOT? Why not have a year of fun learning about the Pilgrims and other first settlers, the Indians, the first Thanksgiving, the 13 Colonies and then the rest of the states, the state birds, patriotic songs and symbols of America, the names of Jesus, simple, fun science experiments that go along with the names of Jesus, our first president and a few others, the Quakers and other religions that found freedom here in America.... I could go on and on, but I'll just say that I'm very THANKFUL Marie created that one year of Adventures!

Thank you so much Crystal for sharing your personal story. I know it was God-led and you will be blessed for your obedience. What you don't know is I've been so torn about the Am. History/World History issue because of the state of our country these days. I almost fear that if I don't show him the roots now my freedom to teach those things might change later. I'm almost sensing urgency in the matter, but I waffle so much. Our church is challenging everyone to prayer and fasting right now and when I start participating in that, I'm going to commit this subject to a large portion of my prayer. I'm so jealous for my children to have a holy respect for God and a God-honoring patriotism for this country.

Kim, I am totally with you on this. Great timing (and need, IMO) for my 8th grader to go more in-depth into American history next year. Also a great time for your oldest -- who's barely just 7 -- to get a good intro to a lot of things that you'll read about in Adventures, along with those fun patriotic songs and symbols that many in our modern culture don't seem to appreciate. Then as you follow up with ECC -- a study of different cultures and land forms around the world, learning about the different religions and spiritual needs of those different cultures -- you'll begin to "see" more of the inter- (or intra?) culturalism that is such a big part of America today... and the politics that goes with it. These are things your 7yo can't understand just yet, but you and your dh will learn a lot and be able to pray with your kids (and church family) accordingly. It's amazing to see how much God has changed our perspective and understanding of things here at our house. Somehow God knows just how to tie those things together with the pastor's sermons and Bible studies.

Also realize that MFW incorporates a really nice "blending" of American and world history together all the way through, with biblical worldview a huge part of it. Even though you may spend one year on *just* American history before getting into world cultures and history, you're laying a foundation... a strong foundation on which MFW very successfully builds. It's hard to explain, but suffice it to say that learning about the Ancient Greeks as a 2nd grader isn't going to necessarily help your child's *biblical worldview* on what's happening in America today.

[4Truth]

Almost forgot.... I want to point you to a couple of the conference talk CDs that might be helpful. Crystal mentioned sheltering vs. insulating and all that. One of those was very helpful to me in trying to decide just how much "sheltering" was enough or too much. It's titled "Exposed, Isolated or Insulated". If you go to this page in the archives and scroll down a ways, you'll see that title and a link to ordering. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3234

And for your situation, I'd also recommend "21st Century Classical Education" or "What Should 21st Century Christians be Teaching Their Children?". Those two are listed at the top of the thread.

You may see some other titles on that page that are helpful, too. Shipping on orders from Rhino Tech is a flat $5.00 whether you order one CD or 10, so you might as well go ahead and get as many as you can in one purchase. (Disclaimer: That was the price of shipping when I last ordered.) Anyway, listening to several of these CDs was VERY helpful to me as a MFW newbie in understanding the philosophy and exactly how it works. Very insightful.

[TriciaMR]

I am very excited about starting ECC this fall with my girls, 4th grade and 2nd grade. I feel their American history is in decent shape. However, we have done very little U.S. geography. Since we missed Adventures, will the girls get enough U.S. geography in ECC or do I need to somehow fill in the gap?
Thanks,
Teresa

The first 2 weeks of ECC cover the US. If we had a U.S. puzzle to put together that helped my kids. Or, you could just look at a map various times through the summer:

"Okay, here is Washington, D.C. That's where the capital is."
"Here's where we live."
"There is a mountain range here (Rocky Mountains)"

You get the idea. Just get them a little familiar. Texas is to the south, California on the West, etc.

-Trish

[cbollin]

I think that as they learn more about geography in general, it will become part of natural discussions to carry it over to where you live.

Plenty of people start ECC without having done ADV, and it's fine.

When do they need to memorize the 50 states and capitals? I guess what got me concerned was when my oldest took a standardized test and she did not know that Oregon was a state. The question was dealing with where to place commas. She knows to put a comma between a city and a state. But she did not recognize "Salem, Oregon", so she missed that one.

I wouldn't worry about missing a question like that for a 3rd grader. Plenty of 3rd graders do not know all 50 states yet. That's one reason to roll eyes at standardized test at this age when some content is not covered to be able to do that. Some children might have the logic skills to guess it was a city and state (or at least proper names of places) -- but don't worry about that problem. The real question that should ask is "what city and state do you live in and can you write them?". don't worry about that question. She knows to put comma, but under the pressure of the test, missed one. ((hugs))

But, the answer to the question you asked.. (some of it was covered in ADV), but in ECC weeks 3 and 4, students are given the opportunity to be begin to be exposed or to memorize state names. In the MFW recommended language arts books, that kind of information is also in those. Then, when they are in year 5, 1850MOD, you can learn/review/memorize states with the CD that's in there and a few card games.

-crystal

[tkrasnake]

Thank you, Crystal. I want my girls to at least know the 50 states and I was worried that since we missed Adventures, they would not get the opportunity - unless I fit it in somehow. My Mom is a public school teacher here in VA and she says they don't even teach the states and capitals anymore. I think that is a shame.

Blessings,
Teresa

[TriciaMR]

I am new to MFW (beginning with the new school year). I have one dd who will be going into 4th/5th grade and one who will be on about the 2nd grade level. We are beginning with ECC. This past year, we used another Christian curriculum for our oldest. We got REALLY bogged down with Greek and Roman history, but neither of us enjoyed it at all. I just don't think we could go through that again so soon. So ... my plan for this year is to have BOTH of my dd in ECC with the younger participating in as much as she can. (she did this last year and I don't feel she missed a thing ... had her own math/reading/etc)

My question comes with this: If we follow the cycle as given, my younger will have NO American History (except Pilgrims/Indians/etc) until she reaches about 4th/5th grade. I don't like this ... don't want her to grow up without some knowledge of American history before that time. I read on another thread somewhere a response by the Hazells that one COULD skip to the 2 years of American History and add the 2nd/3rd grade extension pack to go along with it for the youngers. Then, we could go back to the two years of World History. This would also give my older dd another few years before diving back into World History, for which I KNOW she would be happy.

However, that would put her World History in 7th and 8th grades, followed by World History again in 9th. Has anyone done this and what were the results??? I know I am supposed to take this one year at a time, but I am a planner and like to kind of keep the overall picture of things in the back of my mind. Do you see any PROBLEMS in doing ECC, Eto1850, 1850tMT, CTG, and RtoR???

Have you called the office to talk with them? You might consider it. I know there are people on the board who do CTG in 8th, and have AHL in 9th, and it is fine because the years are so different (I haven't done it).

-Trish

[LSH in MS]

I think your plan is a good one. Doing world history in 7th and 8th would prepare well for High School, as it is more literature focused, and the stories would be fresh in her mind.

When my dc entered middle school, I begin to see some weaknesses that they had that they needed a lot of time to work on (study skills for science, writing, grammar). History took a back seat in those years as this was a strong subject for them. This past year my 8th grader did not participate in CTG with his younger siblings, but focused on basic skills and read books on his own.

[DS4home]

I would really encourage you to think about going through the cycle in order. MFW's treatment of the ancients is most likely going to be different from what you have used in the past. I think every curriculum will tend to have a little bit of a different focus while covering the same time period.
In MFW's year 2 (CTG), much of the focus of the year is the Bible and following the Israelites. You will spend a bit of time in Egypt, just like the Israelites did You will study the Biblical feasts throughout the year. I guess I'm trying to say that it won't be a whole year getting bogged down in Greek history. If I remember right, the Greek history doesn't get covered until close to the end of the year. That means it would be at least a year and a half or more until you get there (with doing ECC first). Would that be enough time before touching on it again? And when you do get there, you can skim over some of it if it is all review, or sub a book with something you haven't read, etc.
MFW year 3 (RTR) begins with Rome then spends a lot of time in the Middle Ages. The Roman gods are not a focus with MFW, the focus is more on the early church history. Again, chances are this time period will be covered differently than how you did it before.

I think you would end up being happier down the road, to finish with the two American history years before starting the cycle over again in high school. Keeping the cycle in order for the younger ones sake might be a consideration also. Remembering that any curriculum is a guide for you to use, it can be tweaked to fit you and your family best!

As far as the younger not getting American history early on, there are ways to get some of that in in small ways. Let me copy and past some past conversation about this from the archives (if I can do this right )

• I'd like to suggest a few ways to get some basic US history for the children to hold them over before fuller study. Use some of the books from the Adventures program during "reading time" in CTG. Or extra read aloud on weekend/evenings, whatever. Many of those read alouds will be at the library. You could get the book American Pioneers and Patriots from ADV. That tells overview of culture and lifestyle from point of view of fictional children growing up in those times. Check the ADV page of the MFW website. It's the US focus history program for grades 2-3 when they are the oldest in the grades 2-8.
  
  Keep it light and fun. grab library books at major US holidays. consider watching "Liberty's Kids" for some historical fiction fun. Take field trips around the state where you live.
  and get a current events magazine, such as God's World News -- see MFW"s language arts page for that info and discount.
  
  hope that helps a bit. Those are the kinds of things I added into our ECC year when oldest did ECC in 2nd grade before Adventures was written and thought maybe some of it would help you to present some basics of US history before 7th grade.
  -crystal
  
  Just a thought. Maybe you could do a mini study of the U.S. and then continue with CTG.
  
  I have soon to be 5th and 2nd graders too and we will be in the same place in the cycle. We did do ADV when I had a 3rd and K'er. This summer we are doing a mini U.S. study. I am using some of the books from ADV in addition to library books on George Washington, 4th of July, and such. I am using DVDs such as the George Washington by Nest Entertainment and Liberty's Kids. We are also putting together a simple lapbook I got for a couple of dollars at currclick.com Called "We Love the U.S.A."
  
  A suggestion I've made on this board before for a U.S.A. mini study was the following:
  
  I think that the unit study and lapbook 'How to Make a Cherry Pie and See the USA' from homeshcoolshare.com would be a great mini substitute for ADV and it's free. Using the 'How to Make a cherry Pie' book this unit study includes geography, history, science, LA, applied math, life skills, art and music. (I would also suggest using a patriotic CD).
  
  You can view the thread here:
  http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 705#p74705
  
  HTH
  Tammie - Wife to best friend James for 22 years
  
  You could get the God' s World News for current events.
  You can enjoy some extra read alouds -- in CTG, the read alouds were character based, not ancient history based, so, you can do a few extra US books.
  When you get your CTG manual, you'll see lots of non assigned read aloud boxes once the scheduled ones are done.
  
  Don't worry too much thinking that they'll be messed up for life on this stuff. We worried too much as homeschooling moms on this stuff that they don't know enough about 4th of July, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Presidents Day. Enjoy some state field trips.
  
  not sure that helped any. But don't let worry about missing a full US history program prior to 5th grade drive the decision.
  -crystal
  
  http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11132

Sorry if that is over kill - I just thought there were some good suggestions in there for adding in American history if you choose to follow the cycle in order.
More to think about...

Dawn

[LSH in MS]

Another way to get more American history is to expand the US unit in ECC by a few weeks. Or do read alouds in the summer that focus on famous Americans.

[BHelf]

Or if you aren't against tv watching for educational purposes ( ) you could let them watch Liberty's Kids. (I think it's still on instant streaming on Netflix and you can find it at most libraries as well.) My children love Liberty Kids and it does a great job giving historical information at a child's level.
Just one thought.

Brooke