Placement - Using LGS with a reading child, more ideas!

[gratitude]

phonics to spelling for 1st grade?

I've heard in more than one place that if your kids are already good readers in 1st grade, that the phonics lessons in MFW can be modified to be spelling lessons. We start 1st grade this fall and my kids are good readers so I wondered - how do you go about doing this? Will it be obvious once we dive in?
Thanks!
Laney

You might want to consider skipping the student note book for the first 3 weeks since it is a review of the phonics they learn in MFWK. The handwriting practice though would still be good to do. You would also still want to do the Bible, science, and Bible projects in the TM for those first three weeks. There are some great Bible projects in those early weeks (and I am not a project person and I still liked them!).

My oldest could read when I did MFW1 with him. I still had him do all of the vowel markings on the words and all of the spelling tests. It just meant when there was a list of words to read he read them quickly. The vowel markings though were half of the assignment for those words, and I think those were helpful for him to do and learn since he had learned to read without phonics. The Bible reader was also easy for him to read, but I am so glad he did it. When you reach about day 60 a routine starts of you reading the Bible story, them reading it from the Bible reader, and then them drawing a picture and writing a summary sentence into their Bible note books. They also do a wall time-line. Even though he could read I have never for one second regretted doing MFW1 with him as a first grader. I am very glad I did for the Bible history that he learned.

I hope this helps.

[mothermayi]

What is the phonics like in 1st grade? Are there tips in the manual for kids that are already reading? Thanks!

[froggiemomof3]

They start off as review of what is in K(short vowels and cvc words) then they move to adding in new phonics sounds in the middle of week 4. There are some notes in regard to children already reading in the TM as well. My son is reading at a 3rd grade level so we are using the phonics lessons each day as a review/way to solidify the ones he does know and teach the ones he doesn't. He is also reading level readers(levels 3 and 4 mostly) and short chapter books each day on his own and out loud to me. In week 11 the Bible Reader is introduced and then in week 13 the Bible Notebook. At that point we will really be focusing on his writing his own ideas into sentences.

[mothermayi]

Thank you so much! I appreciate the response. It was exactly what I needed to know .

[kw4blessings]

Hi- I am using MFW for the second year. I have a 6 1/2 yr old boy and a 4 1/2 yer old girl. Last year we used K and loved it. He did K, with all of the writing and reading, and she followed along with everything else. This year, we're using MFW 1st for my son, and the preK resources for my daughter. She is following the stories, history, and crafts, and uses the preschool toys while he does writing, phonics, and math.

However, we are in week 2, and my son recognizes that the writing work is too easy for him, and he can already read, so even using the spelling tests bores him. I'm rewarding him with stickers for each row of work, which makes it go a little faster, but the complaining is awful. He's not having trouble doing the work itself, he is just literally bored to tears. He actually said today, "Writing is so much harder when I'm not writing something I chose to write." I did tell him that writing his letters would only last one more week, and then we'd be writing sentences about Bible stories and Proverbs. I asked him if he'd like that better, and he said, "probably". Should I just wait it out?

Meanwhile, my daughter is moving through the preK activities almost faster than I can dish them out. She realized today that if she finishes fast, I just give her another one, so now she's pretending she needs help (wants me to hold her hand while she counts, etc.) Which defeats the purpose of occupying her so I can do work with him.

So, I'm really starting to second guess if I have the right curriculum for either of them!

I really didn't want to skip to 2nd grade with my son. Although he can read well and write, I knew the writing practice would be good for him, and I wanted him to have that foundation of how Bible fits into history, the virtues learned with Proverbs, etc. But, I'm getting concerned that he won't be interested in writing about the Bible stories, bc we've been reading him Bible stories since he could listen. He was also wanting more math in K so I got him a workbook from the dollar store...so he's done most of the math covered in 1st (except the place value and clocks).

I really didn't want start K with my daughter yet, bc she's not really ready to write yet. I believe in "better late than early" and really want her to just be free-playing at this age. She can write her name and some letters (only bc she wants to), but gets really frustrated if she tries to do more (bc she is too young!)

What can I do? I've spent so much money, and don't want to start over with something different! They both seem to be halfway to the next grade level, but not quite there enough to skip a grade.

Hi! It's so hard to feel like you've found the right thing, then go, "Umm, wait a minute, it's not working like I planned!" I know that feeling.

We finished first last year with my dd. I would encourage you to wait it out. First picks up pace after those first few weeks. In the meantime, could you add a writing assignment for him? Maybe on a topic he enjoys? You may even want to do that when he starts the Bible notebook, until the part where they start writing summaries.

For math, do you have the Complete Book of Math? Even if it's review, that book is full of good activities and fun wkbk pages. My dd is slower in math, but I think hands on and review, review, review is so helpful at this age.

For your daughter, consider getting her a sketchbook to make into her own Bible ntbk, or one from MFW. She could at least draw a picture to go along with the story you're reading together. A fun keepsake. My dd and 4yo ds learned so much Bible from 1st's way of teaching it, even though they also knew most of the stories already.

Hope that's a little bit of encouragement! I would carry on and add/tweak where you need to. I feel that 1st is a year not to be missed!

[Yodergoat]

I would wait it out on First, for sure. It will pick up!

If he really likes to write something on his own, perhaps you could offer him an additional writing project such as doing a journal of his own thoughts or a subject that interests him.... mayhap something he is learning in science. But I would only offer these options after he has finished his Bible notebook pages. I know that for my daughter, she still enjoyed doing the Bible notebook pages even thought she was already very familiar with most of the Bible accounts we covered. It could be different for some children, but familiarity didn't phase her. We did vary the style of the pages so it was not just drawing (even though she likes drawing) and we were able to get creative in those which made it feel more like her own. I bought cheap Bible "storybooks" at yard sales and such and we cut pictures out from them to make collage-style notebook pages. That was fun and kept it varied.

If he liked Kindergarten and took the character lessons to heart, remind him that sometimes we have to persevere (like the Turtle) even when the task is something we don't enjoy or find exciting. Or that complaining about work is not "obeying right away" like the Horse.

But do be assured that First will pick up soon and that you can always enrich it if needed, without a need to skip ahead to Adventures.

I don't have advice about preschool...

[bethinga]

Update: I am past the section where he writes his alphabet letters. We unfortunately are skipping the large scroll for now, (he will write one or two letters a day, but that's moving mighty slow...again, not bc he can't, but bc he's bored) but may come back to it later. He was just miserable and kept asking to write sentences instead. (When we have time, I have him copy a sentence from a favorite book.) We are using the Reading Review as a spelling list. He orally spells out the words to me, after he reads them, and we review oddly spelled words (double consonant endings, s that sounds like z, etc.). This is super-duper easy, but a little less complaining than writing his alphabet. He will write the 6 or so words on the back page, but still wishes for sentences. I am still holding out for the beginning of Proverb & summary writing. I am skipping the Four Square Cards all together, because I know what his reaction will be...a bit insulted, I think, and just "what a drag".

He wishes for things to be the way they are in dd's Preschool and his (previous) MFW Kindergarten year. His favorite things are being read to (still doing that daily, but wish I could do more), and he misses doing crafts. The small scroll has been the only craft. I haven't had time yet to set up any math crafts, because I'm too busy coaxing him through the spelling/writing portions and keeping her occupied. We do a lot of oral math games (another part that is over her head a bit) and the wood pattern blocks, and he loves both. He loves doing his nature journal, because he enjoys drawing, but that's just once per week.

I am really trying to stick with it, but honestly am perusing AO because he wants more "reading to" and copy work. I think I want more, too. He wants more challenge. Trying to hang in there.

My daughter is following along with the Bible, Science, and stories, but still feels pretty left out during writing, reading, and math. She will sometimes do the PreK manipulatives, but not always without help. She's tired of the Hide Em in Your Heart CDs already, bc I was making it into a game of making up movements and having her recite one per week, and I think she sensed this was the ONLY thing I'm doing with *just* her, besides book reading, and it somehow made it not as fun anymore.

I couldn't help but notice my son wishing to go do the PreK manipulatives with her, and he won't always wait until his work is done, because he can tell she wants help/company. That touched my heart that he found it more important to help her. Yet, it's not helping me get him through his work. They did so much of K *together* (except she would run off to play when he did writing or reading), and I do think they miss this.

We are reading AA Milne's Winnie the Pooh every night. Just finished it and starting now on House at Pooh Corner. Wish I had more time for reading.

[Julie in MN]

Hi Bethinga,
I'm getting confused and think you could get more help if the specific needs were more clear. Maybe you don't even know where the needs are, you just feel like something's not going well?

We unfortunately are skipping the large scroll for now, (he will write one or two letters a day, but that's moving mighty slow...again, not bc he can't, but bc he's bored) but may come back to it later. He was just miserable and kept asking to write sentences instead.

So, if you skipped the work on letters & scroll, doesn't that leave time for him to do some writing? If your preschooler makes time scarce, then how about exciting your son about the short school day and all the time he has to write later, on his own? My grandson writes all kinds of things on his own during the evenings, and that's after a 6-hour public school 1st grade (7.5 hours with bus time) and sometimes some additional time on MFW activities. He creates his own gameboards and game instructions, he makes lists, makes books, etc. It's definitely fun for him to have lots of free time to do his own thing. (Although I wish he loved copywork, because he would get in fewer bad habits with that!) MFW is designed to give kids a lot of creative play time.

He wishes for things to be the way they are in dd's Preschool and his (previous) MFW Kindergarten year. His favorite things are being read to (still doing that daily, but wish I could do more), and he misses doing crafts. The small scroll has been the only craft. I haven't had time yet to set up any math crafts, because I'm too busy coaxing him through the spelling/writing portions and keeping her occupied. We do a lot of oral math games (another part that is over her head a bit) and the wood pattern blocks, and he loves both. He loves doing his nature journal, because he enjoys drawing, but that's just once per week.

Again, my first thought is to wonder why there isn't time to sub out another activity from the math games or the 1st grade Ideas board, etc. Or to read lots to him, if that's what he likes. First grade only takes 1.5 hours if you do it all, and you're skipping some things, so it seems like there must be time in there to read from the book lists (math, science, classics, Honey for a Child's Heart). You have permission to read to him

Or, is it impossible because he is making the choice to go very slowly through your adapted spelling lessons (and can't remember if you are adding more), and thus you run out of time? Is it his playing with his sister during school time, which you mentioned earlier? I'm not sure, but it seems possible that the phonics lessons are actually too much rather than too little, or maybe it's just hard adapting to the longer school day in general, rather than to any of the specific lessons?

I am really trying to stick with it, but honestly am perusing AO because he wants more "reading to" and copy work. I think I want more, too. He wants more challenge.

I'm wondering what "more challenge" looks like to him. Being "read to" sounds more like he's asking for "less challenge" to me. On the other hand, his asking for copywork does sound like an extra challenge, but if that's really as exciting to him as he imagines, then do you see him doing it on his own time? Copywork can be done all day long if he likes, he can just pick up a book at his level and go with it. However, if he's needing a lot of instruction in order to copy a sentence, then maybe he doesn't realize what that instruction looks like, i.e. it looks like the phonics and language lessons that he's resisting

It just sounds more like he's balking at doing 1st grade work rather than wanting more. I wonder how old he is, is he a young 1st grader? Again, maybe he needs fewer lessons and 1st grade could spread into the language arts of 2nd grade, since MFW-1st takes kids through an entire phonics program that others might be learning into 2nd grade. Yes, he may be reading, but that doesn't mean he's emotionally ready to focus and have the physical and mental control he needs for 1.5 hours daily.

I know all kids go through phases (quite regularly, for some) where they think they know everything already. Believe me, with a 17yo in the house, I am hearing that quite a lot. But it doesn't really mean they do know everything, especially if they can't do it quickly and easily. I've tutored a lot of kids and generally slowing down and examining the lessons gets them further than rushing through -- even if they don't think so at first. For instance, I think we all can work to improve our handwriting, even as adults. We all can use phonics review over many years -- especially an early reader, who likely has memorized patterns rather than understanding them (I had a youngest like that, and I went back in 3rd grade to teach him phonics, even though he learned to read before K). Lots of times kids want to race ahead but don't realize that it's the foundation that's most important. Maybe he could race ahead in some other area -- build a science kit, learn to cook, make a movie...

Of course, there are those truly academically motivated kids who ask you what words mean that I've never heard of, or the very artistic who have lovely handwriting on their own, and so there are exceptions to every general pattern. It's always possible you have one of those, but I'm just hearing mixed messages from him. And of course I like to over-think things LOL.

Best wishes as you try to meet your dear one's needs,
Julie

[bethinga]

He's almost 7. He does get read to often. We read the devotional, the science, stories to go with science and math, as well as bedtime stories, stories from The Book of Virtues, Winnie the Pooh, and any other books they want during the day. Plus, he reads chapter books to himself in bed at night. But, I sense he'd enjoy more. And I don't have time for more. He enjoys copying a couple of sentences from a favorite book, or writing letters to us, or making signs for his door, or some simple captions for his Science pictures. But, he still seems bored with certain parts of school. He doesn't like reading a list of 3 letter words and spelling them back to me, or writing them in his student workbook because it is boring to him. His handwriting is neat. So, that's not the problem. If we do it first, he complains through it, and mopes, making it longer to get to everything else. If I save it for after the things he likes, he knows it's coming, and therefore mopes through the verse recitation, the devotional, etc. I looked ahead and it seems the words pick up in difficulty down the road. Maybe that will be enough to get him over the hump.

Yes, my daughter's needs take up a lot of extra time. She's distracting, and even when she has things to do, she flies through them. She wants more to do. We enjoy reading books all together, she joins in with as much math as she can, and especially Science. But, she wants more. He wants more. They are both a little bored, and it's a struggle to get them excited about doing school each day. Once we are "into" the stories, science, and games, they're great. But, getting us beyond the parts he doesn't like, which she cannot yet participate in, takes up time. And, they do miss crafts. I'm probably going to just make time for painting each day, to make up for that lack.

We have afternoon play dates twice per week, and each has a sport once per week, leaving just exploration day free. So, if we start early, we are done by lunch, which leaves enough time to let them have free play until their afternoon activites. They love, and need, and must have free play, so I'm not introducing more school stuff when their attention has shifted to Legos and dolls and the outdoors. I use that time to catch up on household chores, read Honey for a Child's Heart, Drawing with Children, and sort their papers into their notebooks. So, having the time to gather colored pasta and string and whatever else is needed for math activites from the math book hasn't happened yet, although it will eventually. I have played the math games with them which do not require props, as well as math and phonics board games I've recently purchased second hand, which are fun. So, these, and the pattern blocks, are filling in for "math activites" right now.

So, I am happy with most of the curriculum, just still not sure how to make the phonics portion more challenging for him so he's not bored and dreading it, while successfully keeping my daughter occupied. These, in a nutshell, are my specific (simultaneous) problems. In other words, his bordom with phonics occurs at the same time as her bordom, which takes away time from other fun stuff. And, yes, the curriculum does seem short on crafts, which they loved doing together in K (although the science experiments and science notebook drawing has been fun, but that's just on Fridays), so I know they miss that. They're still very much "little", but very bright, so I waver between using my time to create more challenge, or make more games and crafts. I hope that is more clear and specific. Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Julie in MN]

Oh my, it seems like you are trying so hard.

If his handwriting is neat, then it doesn't seem like he is just not wanting the practice he needs. Can he just do the "easy" lessons by discussion, or on the marker board, and move forward to what you see ahead? If it's really easy for him, then reading a list of 3-letter words and spelling them back shouldn't take long at all, you could even make a game of seeing how fast he could go. If he's an active kid, you could challenge him to spell all of them while standing on one foot or some other action.

Or maybe you just spot-check those each day, maybe even combine a couple of lessons, just a word or two from each as a spot-check. If the spot-check shows mastery (not just memorization), then I wouldn't feel tied to the entire lesson. If you want to hover in place while you do the science and math that they enjoy, then there are some Idea boards for 1st and for preschool, for instance here's one idea I noticed about keeping a reading notebook:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 378#p13513

If you need some sort of written record, you can just jot in the notebook what day you went over something orally, subbed, or I've even heard of taking a photo of a marker board or other activity.

Depending on your dd's personality, you could maybe involve her by taking turns between them, he spells a word (orally or on marker board) then she does a letter or a shape or a picture (cat) or an action (jump and touch toes). When I did phonics with my active youngest as a 3rd grader, I put letters on index cards and had him jump to them, things like that. I know that bringing the preschooler into the lessons wouldn't work with all kids...

Would the time you used to spend gathering materials for crafts be able to be replaced with gathering materials for some of the math activities and such? Otherwise, it sounds like you have some good board games going and you'll be fine for quite a while on that.

Just trying to brainstorm with you,
Julie

[bethinga]

Thank you, those are great ideas for my daughter. I know she'd enjoy doing anything with her body, and having a turn between his spelling would make her very happy. He'd love to race through words. When I hit some difficulty, that will tell me where to slow down. Thank you for taking the time to give me ideas!

I'm not sure why I've not visited that thread earlier. I guess I've been over thinking things myself, and missing the obvious place to go for help.

Wow! Just found this!

I really don't know how we started this, but now that we've been doing it, there is now turning back, LOL! It really makes school time more fun.

In a bowl, we have folded up slips of paper labeled:

*reading workbook
*reader
*proverb
*math
*science
*math game
*reading game
*eat candy (ds's favorite "slip")

(As we go further into the curriculum, we'll adjust the slips to fit bible notebook, etc. )

I let ds draw a slip out of the bowl and that's the next "subject" we do. It is fun for him and has kept me accountable to making school fun, as I probably would want to skip the games, but this way we do them and they turn out to be so worthwhile and fun. Of course, he gets such a kick when he draws out the "eat candy" (usually a roll of smarties) slip......

This might really work well for us!! I could drop in dd's PreK manipulatives (which he also enjoys) and her Hide Em CDs, (which I really wish ds would participate in, but I made the mistake of introducing it as "her" school). Along with your idea of allowing her "turns" between his spelling words, and they'd both be doing school TOGETHER again. This might solve almost all of my issues. They'd be super happy about candy being in the bowl somewhere.

[gratitude]

Skip the review in the beginning of MFW1. My dd6 asked to do the same thing a month ago when we started back up. She remembered all of it from K and didn't want or need to do it again. It doesn't interfere with the Bible history portion of the program at all. When the Bible portion starts it dives into Bible note booking and then you can have him do the note book at whatever writing level he is at. If the Bible reader is 'super' easy for him to read it still should benefit him to read it aloud. Use MFW1 as your history program and then teach him LA, math, and reading at the level he is at. MFW1 note book could easily be used for 2nd grade level writing if he is truly writing at that level.

Anyways...that is what I would do. I am on my third time with MFW1, but it is very modified this time since it is my third time in 3 1/2 years. The Bible history, time line, and note book really is invaluable I would encourage you to do it with him.

Blessings,

[bethinga]

Thanks for more feedback. If what I'm trying today doesn't keep working, I will keep that advice in mind.

Today, I'm trying the bowl with activities for them to draw from. I put in the Science for today, some storybooks that go along with it, pattern blocks, preK games, Hide Em songs, Four Square Cards as a reading game for them to work together, art, and some spelling (just to try out her taking turns with him writing a shape etc. on the board), and Eat Candy! They were really surprised to draw that one! Lol! This morning has been fun and they've been able to do everything together! I can't thank you ladies enough!

Postby bethinga » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:13 pm
Ok, so here's another update, if for no other reason than I need to share (and maybe it will help someone in the future...)

The slips of paper in a box for them to draw from lasted about 2 days. On the second day, I just felt chaotic, because I was not in control of what comes next. The kids were also getting grumpy if they didn't draw a candy slip every time, too. But, I'm still using the concept of letting them take turns, on their own level, within each subject. This still keeps them together. I told them if they got through all the day's lessons with good attitudes and no complaining, they could have 3 pieces of candy each at the end. I wrote each subject on the board and erased as we completed each one.

During each lesson, if it was something they had to do separately, I told them when it isn't their turn, they may either listen quietly, or go play in another room. The lessons are short, and they were able to keep quiet for each other (Whoo-Hoo!!). Then, since I got to plan what came next, I tried to follow "separated" lessons with "together" lessons (things they can do together, like science, stories, etc.). With spelling time, I'm still using the board and allowing my little daughter to take turns between his spelling words to write a letter or shape. I have her draw a Sesame Street flash card from a bag to determine what she will write on the board next. (That's the most use I've ever gotten out of flashcards!)

So that my son isn't bored with phonics, writing, and math, I am adding in extra stuff. For writing, I'm having him copy a favorite sentence from any book. For math, I skipped the number of the day and just reviewed place value on the chalkboard, letting him write any number (up to 3 digits) and underlining the place value I call out. He then writes it in expanded form, horizontally sometimes, and vertically other times. He loved it! I still used my one bean stick by asking him how many sticks the 10th place in each number represented. For reading, I had him read an easy reader on his level out loud to his sister and me. I also picked back up with Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons where we stopped last year. (In K, someone gave us that book and since he was highly interested in reading, I used it alongside MFW K.) I didn't think he needed the rest of the lessons 50-100, bc he can read the last story lesson so well and reads chapter books on about a 4th grade level. But, he enjoys these lessons more than the ones in MFW 1st, and it's great review for spelling, as well as reading.

Today felt better than last week, so I hope this helps us find our "groove". Thanks for the help and "listening"!

I think that's a great thing that you update like this. It's fun to get a glimpse into your little ones' schooling. But also, your memory will be more faulty later on, so now when it's fresh you can post advice that may help others. Thanks!

[froggiemomof3]

Just looking for advice... my 1st grader is on the advanced side... she is already reading "Level 1" readers pretty independently. She complains every time I bring out the MFW Workbook and student sheets. She feels they are boring and repetitive. I accelerated things a little bit in the beginning, so we are in Week 7 even though we're only in Week 6 of school, but I don't want to go any faster because it does seem like going over all the phonics is good for her to give her a good foundation. However, I can't help but agree that at times it does feel repetitive and boring. Have people found a way to make it more interesting for the kids? Should I try a different phonics program with her? I feel like things will get better once we get to the Bible Reader but we are still several weeks away from that and I am kind of dreading the time until we get there.

My son is an advanced reader. He is reading leveled readers and even small chapter books and is reading around a 3rd grade level. We still do the Phonics on the schedule that MFW1 has them. We didn't do the 4 square cards exactly as called for, and I don't make him do the reading review every day. He does do the workbook pages and any writing activities. We are starting week 7 this week. We have added All About Spelling Level 1 and that is reinforcing the phonics but from the spelling perspective. I feel the phonics are really important to grasp now so that sounding out harder words is easier later. I know that he knows the sounds we are going over, but I just reiterate to him that it is important to fully understand this now. He doesn't seem bothered by having to learn something "easy" that he already knows. I would really just continue at the pace that MFW has it and know that around week 12 and 13 you will add in the Bible Reader and Notebook and that will really pick up the reading and implementing of all these phonics she is reviewing now.

[Julie in MN]

I like Ayrielle's advice to continue with the solid foundation even if you mix it up a bit. We had a similar conversation not long ago here:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14285
You'll see that gratitude just skipped the easy review parts, too, so that's an option. Maybe something on there will seem right for your little one?

Julie

[bethinga]

Hi, We are in week 7 and having a similar issue. (My thread was referenced here, but I'll save you the hassle of reading that book! )

I've been continuing with the workbook pages, but I told my son, "This is not a reading lesson, because you already know how to read well. This is spelling and handwriting practice." That took away some of the balking, but he still complains a little. I've decided the review is good for him, even though he reads on maybe a 3rd/4th grade level, because I know the words will get more difficult later on, and because I feel like it's such a short lesson to "endure" if it will help reinforce spelling and handwriting.

For the reading review, I have him read the last 3 pages, instead of having him read for 15 min, as the TM suggests. Twice a week, I have him read any book of his choice, on his grade level or above, aloud to me. Because we started before K with "100 Easy Lessons", I'm continuing that where we left off, again just to reinforce, and because he enjoys those lessons. Hope that helps!

[MFW-Lucy]

Just chiming in to agree with the others to adapt the lessons as needed for review. If your child know the phonics well then he will not need the daily review and possibly not the games on Friday. Also be sure to read the information on on the bottom of p. 9 and 10 What If MY Child Is Already Reading Well?. Just as bethinga mentioned the handwriting practice is important and making the phonics a review with a spelling focus is good.

Children who are already reading well at a young age usually still need handwriting and composition practice (this will come later in the year). So focusing on those skills while just letting him enjoy and practice reading good books while reviewing the phonics will be enough for a 1st grader. Reading should not take more than about 30-45 minutes each day. For the child who is already reading, 15-20 minutes of that time may just be reading a good book.

Hope that helps.