College requirements

[cbollin]

I have a question about college requirements and wondering if anyone can help me.

I am looking ahead to my son's high school years and making sure MFW meets the necessary requirements. I believe it does but I am so new to this I want to be sure I don't make a mistake in my planning.

I've read on a couple of college websites that the requirements for history are: 3 units of history and citizenship to include one unit of American history and two additional units from the subjects of history, economics, geography, government, non-western culture. Does that mean 1 year of American history and 2 years of the other subjects mentioned combined to equal 2 units?

And a unit is a year, correct?

Thanks! Susan

welcome along !

The colleges are most likely calling 1 year a "carneige unit" as the same thing MFW calls a "credit.

Over the course of all 4 years in MFW high school students will have in social studies category:

1 unit of ancient history
1 unit of world history
1 unit of US history (this is done over 2 programs to allow gov't study)
.5 unit in US Gov't
.5 unit in Economics
.5 unit in World Geography (with option for other .5 credit via independent study)

So to meet 3 units (1 in US history, 2 in others listed)... MFW offers 4.5 credits over the 4 years.

The other credits in the programs will have 4 years of English, 4 years of Bible. Math is offered in MFW choices through Calculus. Science is strong with possibility of sciences in all years 9th-12th.
Several other electives are part of the program.
Also, check out the "college prep" elective sections of their website in order to see the "CLEP study" materials to have potential to earn early college credit in College Algebra, US History, and English Composition.

The suggestion course of study over the whole program can be seen here
http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... dy.pdf?r12

You might also enjoy looking at page 9 of this sample for some general planning on college entrance for various universities
http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... sample.pdf

welcome along!
-crystal

[MizzSuzan]

Thanks Crystal!

That is what I was hoping it meant. I have been doing my "homework" on homeschooling thru high school but I have to admit the wording of the history requirements above threw me a bit. Several of the colleges I had been referencing simply give a general requirements list, but OSU and OU both give specific courses of study within the requirements so I wanted to be sure we were covered where ever my kids land!

I do have another question. I read this recently at Cathy Duffys website and it worries me because there is a comment within that I am not entirely certain how to interpret. The end of the review of MFW is this:

• "MFW for high school level allows for more independent study than at younger levels, but it retains the coherent, worldview, Bible-based foundation of younger levels. The high school courses provide solid academic coverage, with a focus that is quite different from typical standards-based programs. The history sequence adds considerable information on Biblical and church history. Many literary selections have a Christian perspective, especially in the second year course. While I agree with MFW’s choice to purposely select what to teach rather than follow the traditional standards, college entry issues might arise whenever course content differs from that of most other schools. Because MFW also provides an academically-rich education, this is not likely to be a problem. If you prepare a child well academically, and possibly have them accumulate some CLEP credits during their high school years, they should be well-positioned for academic success in college as well as solidly grounded in their faith because of the intensive worldview education they will have received."

I realize it ends on a very positive note, but what does the reviewer mean when they state "entry issues might arise..."? Is it standard practice for colleges to ask you whay curriculum you use?

And what if the student doesn't do CLEP? Or is it just something they should do?

Thanks!

[Julie in MN]

(Cathy Duffy quote)...Many literary selections have a Christian perspective, especially in the second year course. While I agree with MFW’s choice to purposely select what to teach rather than follow the traditional standards, college entry issues might arise whenever course content differs from that of most other schools.

Hi Susan,
I have to laugh at the amount of scrutiny that Kathy Duffy is expecting from colleges. My oldest's public school "literature" included only 2-3 books per year, along the lines of Tuesdays With Morrie. His college must have fainted dead away

Well, I do think there are a few state colleges which seem to be micromanaging admissions, perhaps because they just have too many candidates and not enough slots. And, if your student tests poorly, then that may be another reason that the admissions department gets out their microscope. I don't know. But my public schooled son never had a question like that, and he never even had world literature. My homeschooled son has applied to two Christian colleges this year for dual enrollment, and nothing was asked about literature

However... If someone were to ask, I can't see a problem here. WHL had my son reading the following this year for his literature credit. Did I mention that my public schooled son would have had a list of like 2 books?!

- Julius Caesar, by Shakespeare (Ancient Rome)
- Beowulf
- Various excerpts from British lit in the British Literature text (Canterbury Tales, Sir Gawain, Rape of the Lock (of hair, a parody by famous author Alexander Pope), Gulliver's Travels, and quite a bit of poetry)
- Pilgrim's Progress in Modern English
- A Tale of Two Cities, abridged (France)
- Silas Marner
- Pride and Prejudice
- Cry, the Beloved Country (Africa)
- Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secret (China)
- The Hiding Place (Holland/Germany)
- Animal Farm (Russia)
- Various poems and short stories and excerpts in the Notgrass document book (longer pieces include Everyman play, The Necklace famous French short story, Russian Tolstoy's War & Peace Excerpt)

I would agree that most pieces are chosen for their uplifting value. For instance, Marie says that she chose the novel Cry, The Beloved Country is chosen for it's more uplifting qualities when studying Africa, rather than the Notgrass assignment of Heart of Darkness. Many times the poetry is some of the most faith-oriented from amongst an author's works. But I think pretty much all of the authors and the works that are studied will be found on any list of general classics, excepting maybe the Hudson Taylor bio?

Julie

[gratitude]

Well, I do think there are a few state colleges which seem to be micromanaging admissions, perhaps because they just have too many candidates and not enough slots. And if your student tests poorly, then that may be another reason that the admissions department gets out their microscope. I don't know. But my public schooled son never had a question like that, and he never even had world literature. My homeschooled son has applied to two Christian colleges this year for dual enrollment, and nothing was asked about literature

I don't know if Julie, or Crystal, or perhaps MFW staff will know but do college admissions microscope home school applications since they don't have the 'accredited diploma' from a state or private school?

[cbollin]

I don't know if Julie, or Crystal, or perhaps MFW staff will know but do college admissions microscope home school applications since they don't have the 'accredited diploma' from a state or private school?

You know... some of the super most selective places, might? But really, it is not an issue, Carin. Many private and public schools are not "accredited" either. Did you know that?

But all I know is from my real life friends how it went for them.... it was not micro managed at that level. I know that Bret's son did transcript (that parent built and signed) and ACT scores. That was it. Very prestigious engineering university.

I remember when I lived in a university town in Indiana... it wasn't an issue.

One super expensive college in my current town asks homeschooled applicants to submit SAT Subject Test Scores, but doesn't ask that of other graduates.

I know on other forums they talk about submitting all of these lists of lists of classics that we read... well, I guess there a few colleges out there that want that. I guess that's why MFW suggests keeping a list started in 9th grade.

But in general.. well.. if we believe the years and years and years of research and stats from HSLDA, then homeschoolers and college admissions go well together. here
http://www.hslda.org/highschool/college.asp#admissions

-crystal

[cbollin]

I read this recently at Cathy Duffys website and it worries me because there is a comment within that I am not entirely certain how to interpret. The end of the review of MFW is this:
...
I realize it ends on a very positive note, but what does the reviewer mean when they state "entry issues might arise..."? Is it standard practice for colleges to ask you what curriculum you use?
And what if the student doesn't do CLEP? Or is it just something they should do?

It is not standard practice that colleges ask that level of details. Some may ask for a list of what did you read. It is standard practice to ask for transcript, SAT or ACT scores, a few ask for SAT Subject Test (this is rare, but standard for about 100 of the top tier 1 universities and they ask it of ALL applicants).

While I agree with MFW’s choice to purposely select what to teach rather than follow the traditional standards, college entry issues might arise whenever course content differs from that of most other schools.

I don't understand the sentence either. This would mean that every private school student, and every public school student would otherwise be doing the exact cookie cutter "content". Just not true. so it creates weird fear of doing something different, or probably (given that it's Duffy).. just fear of doing "classical and ancients". Really... she's implying that all private and public school do the same content. really? LOL LOL LOL LOL. I think she had a poorly constructed sentence that is without merit.

so what in the world does she mean that "content" might be different? Is she suggesting that all colleges want to see cookie cutter? Does she mean that with Apologia Biology that you have to do "anatomy and physiology" in the Advanced Course, or have it in Health Credit? Or does she just mean "oh no! MFW is doing Classical.. ewwwwwwwww". You know... Ancient history is offered in some high schools. There is even a "classical christian" high school (private) here in Memphis... those kids get into college easily! It makes them look Stronger (cue the Kelly Clarkson song,....) What about students in group school who do AP courses? That's not same content as those in regular track courses. Oh no! that means kid 1 in Public School A might look different from kid 2 in same Public School A if one is in standard track and the other is in AP class? does that mean the standard track kid can't do to college? nah....

in other words, I think Duffy has made a statement without strong merit to it

but then Duffy dismisses her own unwarranted concern:

Because MFW also provides an academically-rich education, this is not likely to be a problem.

so, she ranted about who knows what and then says not a problem.... that means, ignore it.

besides..... students using MFW as a pilot program have not been experiencing college entry problems.

Carin had asked on accreditation..... Did you know that there are some accredited schools out there that allow homeschoolers to use whatever they want? So this means that a college would see an accredited transcript and it could be the exact stuff from MFW. LOL

If you don't do CLEP, you can go to college. you really can... Not all colleges accept CLEP as transfer credit. If you have it and they don't transfer it, it can still look good that you tried to do something. and in some limited ways it can tell them you had "traditional content in the course" ! LOL If you don't do AP, you can be admitted to college. If you want the most expensive names... you might not get into those.

I've read that Duffy review several times and each time I keep thinking... she's just not right in that assumption that colleges want cookie cutter from homeschoolers. Some colleges do ask too much of homeschoolers in terms of paper trail of books read. Others ask for more tests. But don't be scared of doing Ancients in 9th grade just because "regular high school track" doesn't do it. It makes the transcript more competitive to have it. The English is strong in MFW... and I don't think it will be an issue if one semester of US history is in one year, and the other semester is in another year.

I'd just dismiss Duffy's first sentence as poorly constructed. She turns around and dismisses it anyway.

I do not understand Duffy's concern that some of the literature is done from "Christian" perspective. I mean... if my children were attending parochial schools, wouldn't colleges expect some religion?

Also, when I was in Public School we did Cry the Beloved Country in 12th grade AP English. The biggest discussion point was how to pronounce the author's last name.

or maybe, she didn't intend those two sentences to be in the same paragraph of the review. but placed together it does sound like "eek,, oh no.. colleges don't want to see literature with religion." huh? nah...

and agreeing with Julie.. that if it is an overcrowded state school, and they have to do something to make a decision..
but hmmm..... MFW could only help with that with all of the reading we get to do, plus if your student does get active in a service setting for several years (that will look good)...

and that they can write a decent essay.

((hugs))

PS. back home in Indiana... we had a private school, non accredited.. very uhmm.. how do I say this... liberal worldview philosophy, new age secular worldview school... blend of traditional english, math, science, but then with a twist of lots of individual pursuits. Those graduates from this rather unique free spirit "hippie" school (that describes it) were getting into big name colleges in US and abroad. I just searched their site to see where their students went to college.... so you know.... even those kinds of places with very non traditional content aren't necessarily experiencing entry issues in college. yes, that school made sure they took English, Math, Science too... but I'd venture to say it wasn't the same content as the county schools nearby. and those senior projects ? LOL. so even though that school shared my educational philosophy but with opposite worldview... they've encouraged me that homeschoolers are ok to not do school at home.

-crystal

[Amy C.]

college entry issues might arise whenever course content differs from that of most other schools
(Above quoted from the Cathy Duffy insert.)

Question: Did she have any statistics to back this statement up or is it just her "speculation" that this might happen?

Plus, while I know many people have relied on her reviews in choosing curriculum/products, and I have even visited her website to read her reviews on a couple of items, I've often wondered exactly who she is. I mean what credentials does she have to have such an influence on others and their choices. Could someone enlighten me? This is not meant to be a snotty response. It is a genuine question.

Amy C.

[cbollin]

Amy,
I knew you intended it as honest question. ((hugs)) The question is about her work, not her as a person, nor a slight against anyone who uses the materials as one factor in decisions. I think most people I know use her stuff as a beginning point to start looking and then fine tune using other expert opinions. Or to find out what questions to ask.

on her own website, duffy doesn't really list a lot of background with degrees in education. She says of herself that she began to homeschool in 1982 and she did a lot of research and wrote books on her research and opinions. Back in the day, there wasn't a lot of other stuff to use, so her work was seen as a starting place to narrow down things. Then... things change. Also, thought I"d share it because it is really funny.... Duffy has this online site that is answer a bunch of questions and then the computer will generate a list of perfect curriculum for you....... LOL LOL LLOL.. It told me that mfw is a poor fit for me.
oops. been using it very successfully since 2003.
and the stuff that fit me? was something that I'd never use because of content.

I'm with you Amy... the way the sentence you did the pull quote reads like speculation vs research backed information. duffy doesn't claim to be a specialist on college admissions. so, it's a sentence that I say think can be dismissed as even Duffy herself says this will not be a problem with mfw stuff.

Duffy's review is positive. It's not negative. She says MFW is really good for college prep and don't worry about the so called non traditional sequence with history starting with ancients. She just throws in a sentence that doesn't make sense and creates unwarranted concern. and she doesn't explain what she means by it either. What is MFW doing that is too far off of "traditional content" that sentence is next to the part that church history is added? is that her tangential concern? church history is added?

She has a minor error about AHL by the way.... the "geography" section really belongs in WHL and US 2. well, ok. that's actually not super major, but she's wrong on that part. And I disagree that the Lit Supplement in US 1 has only "a few" selections.. She makes it sounds a lot less than it really is when you see it up close.

If you can see the MFW stuff in person at a convention, or a friend or pay the shipping... that might help see the unseen a lot better than online reviews from those who haven't used the program as written. Duffy hasn't used this stuff. She's writing a description of the content. She does not say you won't get into college if you use MFW.

I know that MFW had several staff members (not just the author) do research on college entrance requirements and all of that. Those research results were taken into part of the development of the program. Also, as the pilot program progressed, they had real life experiences of the pilot students to look at. Did they have trouble getting into military, or college, or a job, or mission field? If so, how can MFW help to overcome those pitfalls? see, MFW researches too.... they aren't just tossing stuff on the cart to sell.

Also, the author has 2 sons who didn't use MFW for high school as it wasn't written yet - so they've been down the route of applying to college. David Hazell tells the story of his oldest son applying at the big fancy State engineering university and told "get a GED" Well.. . the son made an appointment with Dean of Admissions and the requirement was waived and then ultimately changed for university to no longer require such a thing of homeschoolers. That son had very high ACT scores and the university wanted him to take GED instead of studying for Calculus placement test? He went in and made his case before the Dean and changed not just his requirements, but from looking at the website of that college... apparently changed the policy.

so.. MFW has researched and experienced this college entrance requirements from first hand with their own families,staff families and pilot families.

I'm confident of the college stuff with MFW..... I don't know how much of this forum you have read... here are some links on college stuff:

Lisa M tells us about her daughter, as an 11th grader, doing well first time in community college
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 406#p80406

here's a discussion where Bret (of MFW) is talking about his own son's experiences in college writing and how MFW helped prepare for that.. His son is in engineering school and only homeschooled in high school with only MFW. They didn't start homeschooling until that son was middle of 10th grade. He just finished 3rd year of college and is doing great.
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... son#p80564

there are probably other posts with something out there. Not everyone comes back and shares online with it.

-crystal

[Amy C.]

Thanks for the response, Crystal. I've always heard the quote "Consider the source" or "Look to the source". I was just wondering who (not just her name but background and credentials and such) the "source" was.

Amy C.

[MizzSuzan]

Julie and Crystal -- really want to thank you both so much for the input to the questions I posted, and Amy for brining up points about the review I hadn't considered!!

I still have a year to go before high school, but wanted to start this year (8th grade) with whatever curriculum I will use for high school, to make sure we are familiar with the curriculum how it works, etc., so it is why I have been so intently researching MFW and college. I have literally broken MFW High School curriculum apart, researching every book through Amazon.com and Christianbook.com to see how it was rated (review wise), to see if it was "grade level", to read as many of the first chapters as I could....you get the idea, LOL!!! I really like what I see in MFW high school years but have to admit I am researching MFW so deeply because, like all homeschool parents, I want to be certain I am giving my children the best education; but also because I am really afraid of making a mistake that could cost my children. I know it doesn't exactly compare, but I made a bad choice in Math curriculums for last year and now we will be spending the summer playing catch-up with an entirely new cirriculum just to make sure my son is ready for Pre-Algebra and will be ready for Algebra 1 by 9th grade. I just want to make sure I don't make the same mistake again, you know?

And I appreciate the insight into Cathy Duffy's reviews. she had been recommended to me by other HS moms and I just took for granted she was the "end-all-be-all" when it came to curriculums. I have to say, though, I was kind of all over the map with my feelings about it, LOL!!

And thank you for posting the comments about how much research MFW has put into making their high school cirriculum and making sure it does meet college requirments. On some level, I realized that, but really did need to be reminded of it.

I settled with MFW because I really feel that this curriculum will bring my children to know God and will help them grow closer to Him, but I keep allowing my doubts and fears of failing my children to overtake my reason and the gentle leading of God.

Again, I very much appreciate the answers and input. I still have one year before my son hits high school and I'm already losing sleep, LOL!!! At least when we do hit 9th grade next year, I will be ready, LOL!!!

Thank you all so much!! God Bless you and if I don't hear from you again, have a blessed Mother's Day!!!

[mfwrocks]

Question: Did she have any statistics to back this statement up or is it just her "speculation" that this might happen?

My take on it is that she creates a non-existent problem just to say MFW doesn't have that problem.

[Amy C.]

I just want to say that I think you are being very wise in researching and trying to prepare ahead for college. I certainly do not want you to think that I thought you were wrong in looking at reviews and such. You are being very wise. I know Cathy Duffy is well respected by other homeschoolers. I have heard her and her book and website mentioned by other hs moms. I just did not know her credentials and I was wondering if she had any evidence to back that particular concern (other than personal opinion).

I am doing some research on college requirements since my oldest ds will be in 8th grade next. My first question was whether or not he could do state history in 8th grade (since we will be covering that here at home and there will be a coop class offered on that for high schoolers this next year) and it count for high school credit. One thing I did was contact Home School Legal Defense and asked them about high school credits. I was told that in my state that hs'ers are not held to the same credit system as ps'ers. So I then called our local community college to find out what their requirements would be. The first man I spoke with did not know the answer to my above question so he is referring it to the registrar. Now that I have read through this thread and the other thread about MFW and college prep, I know that I want to know more than just the state history question. I plan to ask the registrar what their requirements for hs'ers are... what all they will be looking for on a transcript. Thanks to Dawn for giving me the idea in the other thread! And thanks to you for starting this thread! I need to know what our colleges are looking for. I feel confident that MFW covers most if not all of what will be required.

So in your research you might want to contact HSLDA (if you are members). That info is not on their website. I had to email them. And contact some colleges that you are interested in to see what their requirements for hs'ers are.

Best wishes as you research and plan for the future! Oh, and Happy Mother's Day to you! And to every wonderful mom on this forum! You are all GREAT!!!

At the risk of this going wrong.... in most colleges it is not the Registrar's office who will have any clue about entrance requirements. In the vast majority of colleges out there, a Registrar's office deals with Currently Enrollment Students. They are not going to know this stuff without asking the right department. They deal with transfer credit between colleges for enrolled students, not incoming first year freshman. It just isn't their department.

SPEAK WITH ADMISSIONS OFFICERS AND ASK IF THEY HAVE SOMEONE WHO WORKS DIRECTLY WITH HOMESCHOOL APPLICANTS

In general, if you do an 8th grade course in 8th grade, then it is not high school work. If an 8th grader does high school work in some subjects, it's fine to list it as "prior to 9th grade". (this is common with Algebra I for example)
I'd be happy to link you, Amy, to some thoughts out there on what to count in jr. high for transcript. it might take a bit of time.

Thanks for all the info, Crystal!

I did talk with the dean of admissions at our local community college here. He is the one who did not know the answer to my question and was referring it to the registrars office. So.... I will definitely look at all the links you sent. Thanks so much!
Amy C.

well,... that's the community college system for ya! when you speak to the next person... now you can say "both Ole Miss and MS State do it this way... Are you any different on that?"

[Julie in MN]

I know I am ahead of the game here, but I am a planner by nature so I would like to ask about college planning even though my oldest is only in 6th grade. I know how fast time flies.

Anyone who has btdt, can you pass on any advice/encouragement that would be helpful for the upcoming high school/college planning years. I do plan to use MFW high school so that should cover most of my bases.

Another MFW user directed me toward MFW's planning guide and to HSLDA high school site. These were both very helpful. I would still love to hear anyone else's experiences and pointers, especially in regards to nurturing a child's gifts/career exploration.

Hi Lori,
I'll chime in, but hopefully you'll gradually hear from several, because this is a seminar topic LOL. In fact, in my area, several homeschool parents have developed seminars, and there are sometimes such seminars at our state convention. But let's see if I can try to be concise for once in my life

First of all, HSLDA as you mentioned is a wonderful resource. I've used their transcript form and I've even called and talked with one of their high school consultants about details of my daughter's unique situation. They are wonderful there.

And as you mentioned, the MFW office and just the MFW high school program will take care of a lot of the thinking for you. If you've looked through one of the high school samples on the website, you'll find a page outlining expectations at two colleges and outlining the MFW plan.

When do you start contacting colleges to ask about admission requirements for homeschooled students?

You can begin now if it will make you feel more prepared, but things change often. You can start by doing an online search. For example, I did a quick search for "university of minnesota admission homeschool" and the first page that came up boasts of being evaluated by HSLDA! http://www1.crk.umn.edu/admissions/prospective/other/

In 11th grade, you will need to get serious about preparing for application, and actual application for college may happen as early as the summer after 11th but the majority of the time it will be the end of January during 12th grade.

How do you know which colleges to contact when a child really doesn't know the field they would like to go into? She has some ideas but being so young and an indecisive personality in general, she naturally changes her mind often

Again, the internet is your friend. For instance, some major publications post "top 10" type lists overall and in specific fields or specific budgets, such as US News, Forbes, and Princeton Review. Individual colleges also post their "enrollment statistics" and such.

There are also homeschool and college parent forums like College Confidential, where you can ask questions of experienced parents. (I'm not promoting any one site; I canceled my College Conf. membership because it wasn't the kind of chatting atmosphere I prefer -- they are very serious!)

What grade in high school do you start visiting colleges?

Again, probably 11th grade, but it's up to you. If you happen to travel to an area, or you have a field trip day, feel free to stop in at a college or ask about official tours. Sometimes they will give you a personal tour, and forever you will be on their mailing list for group tours (oldest son is 29 and still gets invites here).

And what tests do you do and when? (For example...ACT, act prep, etc.)

The SAT is the most common test on the east and west coasts, and the ACT is common in the middle. However, most schools accept either, and it might be worth trying a practice test in both, to see what your student prefers. My son definitely had a preference for the ACT, but I've heard others like the SAT. Traditionally, the ACT was more a test of "accumulated knowledge" and the SAT more of an "intelligence" test, but they both seem to be merging together somewhat.

In Minnesota, we have to do standardized tests yearly, so in the fall of 9th, I began with the PLAN test (pre-ACT), then he did the PSAT in the falls of 10th and 11th (in 11th, it counts towards the National Merit scholarship competition), and then in the spring of 11th and fall of 12th my son did the ACT for real.

All tests are usually held at public high schools, some private high schools, and in the case of the PLAN some homeschool groups. I typically contact the school counselor to sign up.

Any other advice as we look ahead to high school and college planning.

Just that 9th grade begins a new era in your homeschool. For the student, it means work that isn't finished doesn't go away. For the parent, it means that record-keeping of some sort doesn't go away, so you will at some point be able to create an accurate transcript and possibly present a portfolio.

Also, how do you encourage your child to explore career options/areas of study? Specifically, realistic goals. My dd often has very elaborate, neat plans but often are not realistic in terms of security or feasibility. While I want them to pursue dreams and God given gifts, I also want them to be prepared to be self sufficient and realistic, but I also don't want to crush dreams and confidence. Hope that makes sense.

I don't think kids are normally realistic until maybe 11th or 12th grade, or even later. However, you can start printing out a page of requirements for a school she looks at now and then (not just minimum requirements, but averages for those who were actually admitted). In 10th grade, MFW assigns a research paper and my son did it on medical careers. I thought it really helped him see the whole range of individual careers out there. He mostly did interviews, but the library also had some good reference books like the Occupational Outlook Handbook, which you can look at online http://www.bls.gov/ooh/

My dd "may" be a STEM major (veterinarian), but as I mentioned she changes her mind often. She has also expressed interest in Culinary Arts-two very different career choices.

I think it's best to prepare for the stars even if you think she might not get there. To me, all STEM careers require a strong math base. Not only is math required, but almost all of the upper sciences spend a ton of time doing mathematical calculations. Being comfortable with math will mean not only getting into college, but not dropping her major because of the math. After the spiritual and values-based understanding of the world parts of MFW, math is my next priority.

HTH,
Julie

[TriciaMR]

I don't have any advice on helping a child figure out what they want to do when they grow up. I knew about 9th grade that I was going to get a degree in computer science. My current 8th grader says she wants to be an English teacher. (My 9 yo boys: one wants to be a policeman, the other a missionary.)

Someone just gave me a link to this great thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic ... ime-table/ that helps figure out *when* you need to do certain things. And of course, some of that can vary by university.

My husband said his local community college had some kind of test the students could take to help them narrow down their future. (He ended up getting an associates degree at the CC, and then went on to college and got a bachelor's in electrical engineering - and it was that test that helped him narrow things down.) So, you might see if that would help. I think there is also a What Color is Your Parachute for teens. I used the regular book my senior year of college to help narrow down 3 job offers

[hsm]

Thank you Tricia and Julie,

A lot of great information... I have been copying and pasting all of this for further reading. I appreciate your help!

[Julie in MN]

Our daughter will be doing the last year of MFW (US History 1877 to present) starting in the fall. She has done the other three MFW high school years, and has completed Algebra II and Chemistry.

Math and science are not her strong areas and she would love to NOT take math and science her last year. She is looking into studying education or social work in college.

My question is: do we push her to take advanced math and/or science because it might help her get into college (she has a 3.5 GPA and 25 ACT)? And how many credits would be acceptable as minimum for that year? With the basic MFW course, no math or science or foreign language, she'd just have 4 credits. Her junior year was heavy academically, and we're hoping to give her some time in her senior year to apply for college and scholarships, plus she will be working part-time. Thanks for any advice!

Hi Dawn,
I think it's best to look at some of the colleges she's interested in, and find out how competitive they are. Also, check out whether she'd have to take classes like Physics in college if she didn't have them in high school. Taking them in college would mean paying for them, but also liberal arts degrees may require some credits in the maths and sciences no matter what she did in high school, and she might want to prepare for those college courses by doing similar courses at home now, so she isn't a deer in the headlights.

If you think she could boost her ACT score with some work, that would be another way to be competitive, and possibly get more school scholarship dollars as well. She could still take it again this fall. High ACT scores make up for other weaknesses, sometimes.

That said, my son did not have a great transcript for 12th grade, for various reasons. However, he has good test scores and dual-credit courses, and he may go to college after a gap year, so I wanted to fill in his fairly empty transcript. I gave him "elective" credits for some of the things he was already doing, so he'd have more courses each semester (weightlifting, auto). I didn't give him credit for everything he did (such as working, which could have earned work-study credits), but some things.

Just a couple thoughts,
Julie

[Dawn139]

Thanks, Julie. We've been talking, too, about dual enrollment. It seems she could take a college level math course that would satisfy most gen ed requirements for college and it would count as 1 credit for high school. Am I right that a class like that would probably be a lot of review from what she's already done through Algebra II?

She also enjoys photography, so we've looked into community classes on photography. We could count that on her high school transcript as possibly .5 credits, right, even if it isn't a college credit class?

[Julie in MN]

I'm not sure which college level math course you are looking at. I've heard of "college math" but haven't any experience. My soon took "College Algebra" and that is Algebra 3, definitely a step above Algebra 2. It covers basically the same topics but faster and with more challenging components mixed in. My son called it "Algebra on steroids."

And yes, in your homeschool, you can use outside instruction such as a community class to help build an elective credit. If you google your local public school, you may be able to see many of their elective options and reassure yourself that kids are getting credit for lots of things.

HTH,
Julie